IS Leader al-Baghdadi Killed in US Raid

[jrm]

Sam Harris has an episode of his podcast in which he read an article from Dabiq magazine entitled “Why we hate you and why we fight you.” I believe he recently rereleased that episode after one of the terror attacks from earlier this year. It’s very informative. I’ll give you a hint, none of the reasons that ISIS hates the US have to do with our politicians using mean language in press conferences.

I’m pretty sure mocking the “martyrdom” of one of their “religious leaders” could be shoe horned in there with just the least bit of logical effort. From every thing I know the guy needed to die. Our military men who carried out the operation are incredible. Our coward in chief’s look how big MY dick is victory lap is ridiculous. I’m not sure if the harm is measurable or significant but it’s certainly not helpful. Did you hear the part where Donald Trump refers to himself in the third person when stating nobody does the internet better than ISIS except him? We have a clown at the head of our military.

[breakingtime91]

I say keep talking shit. I have no issue with Islam but to say they don't have an issue within their practice right now is a ignorant statement. I have close friends that are Muslim that feel incredibly worried about the "civil war" inside Islam. One for the rational and moderate approach to their faith and the one that would cut off infidels heads and throw gays off buildings.


Quite the contrast but its there and it occupies farther than many think.

[JRB]

I’m pretty sure mocking the “martyrdom” of one of their “religious leaders” could be shoe horned in there with just the least bit of logical effort. From every thing I know the guy needed to die. Our military men who carried out the operation are incredible....

Here's the rub; You don't get to advocate and practice cultural or religious genocide, slavery, child rape, etc and get to have an opinion about anything.
If you are espousing those things at a cultural, organizational, whatever level; I don't give a fluffy pink painted fuck WHY you're mad at us, or what our garrolous POTUS said about your head evil child rapist slave owning piece of shit dude you liked for some inexplicable reason. You don't get an opinion.

The only noise I care to hear from those individuals is either complete and utter apologetic divestment of those values, en masse, completely, without exception - or the sounds of their utterly toxic existence wheezing out of 30 caliber holes before we drop their bitch ass in the ocean or splatter their grave into a JDAM-sized hole.

If you want agency, opinions, a voice on the world stage - stop effecting genocide, suicide bombings, taking slaves, and raping kids. Until then; fuck you, die, and fuck you again.


...and all that second part... seriously, dude, you lost me. Once you start with crap like 'coward-in-chief' you might as well just start making Adults-in-Charlie-Brown womp womp noises. I felt the same way about the same insults about then-President Obama.
There are many things about our current President worthy of criticism, but we can criticize those things specifically and accurately without the infantile hugbox bullshit or insulting the actual station of the U.S. Presdency or its various additional titles.

[WobblyPossum]

I’m pretty sure mocking the “martyrdom” of one of their “religious leaders” could be shoe horned in there with just the least bit of logical effort. From every thing I know the guy needed to die. Our military men who carried out the operation are incredible. Our coward in chief’s look how big MY dick is victory lap is ridiculous. I’m not sure if the harm is measurable or significant but it’s certainly not helpful. Did you hear the part where Donald Trump refers to himself in the third person when stating nobody does the internet better than ISIS except him? We have a clown at the head of our military.

So I take it you haven’t listened to the podcast?

[41magfan]

Since Smith is a Christian apologist, the context of this particular presentation is something of a comparison analysis of the two religions. However, I don't think any critical thinker or open-minded listener will find the content to be the least bit distracting from the facts being presented. It's worth noting that this talk is over 10 years old which makes some of the commentary even more interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GJVDKkNU0c

[GardoneVT]

It's not hard to see how that's going to turn into envy or hatred in some people's minds when they completely lack economic mobility.

This.

It is interesting that the root cause of inner city gangs and violence is not much different then the root cause of terrorist groups. The recruitment model is fairly simple- start with a group of people with little or no relative economic options. Insert a demagogue who promises an “honorable” way of life , three cots and a hot, and a convenient target for the anger. With urban gangs the problem is “whitey” and the government; with terrorist groups the “Great Satan” is the bad guy.

Solve the economic problem and you kill this at the root. Problem is, there too is another parallel; gang violence is a political benefit to some US local politicians, just like terrorist groups are a useful relief valve for unstable & economically mismanaged ME monarchies. When everyone’s making money life’s pretty stable. When someone’s got a house of starving kids and no realistic solutions, look out. This is not to excuse the individual actions of those involved- but the power model is essentially the same.

[Borderland]

So just to make sure I'm tracking 100%;

You assert that killing terrorists does no good - the same asshole terrorists that'd love to cut *your* head off and openly advertise and recruit more asshole terrorists with the promise of attacking Americans.

We discuss that, and you make the point that more will always rise up and the retort is better for them to rise up in fear than in confidence.

Your answer to that is to change the subject and sharpshoot military movement decisons based on what you've seen in news coverage that almost everyone can agree is biased one way or another.

I articulate the very obvious strategic and tactically sound reasoning why we did what we did, and that the person(s) making that call are quite specifically NOT a factor in whether or not those decisions were good or bad.

Your answer to that is to acknowledge that I'm speaking from an informed perspective, but that you don't care about my informed perspective except to sharpshoot me for sharing it as if I'd be the kind of asshole to violate policies or signed NDA's on such things.

You then go on to speak as if SecDef (Ret.) Mattis is a personal source of information for you, and that his very real personality conflict with our current POTUS is the only rationale you need to justify poo-pooing strategic/tactical military decisions being made on the ground right now, as if all of our current Military leadership is aimless and stupid without SecDef Mattis.

So, in summary, Killing terrorists does no good, and everything our Military is currently doing is stupid because our current POTUS annoyed our previous SecDef into retirement, and I'm an idiot for trying to confuse you with the facts, because your cognitive dissonance already made up your mind.

Solid Copy.

Personality conflict my ass. Or maybe Trump has a personality conflict with just about everyone that works for him.

It isn't just Gen Mattis who thinks Trumps a fool. There's Gen Petraeus, Gen McChrystal, Gen Allen, and Gen Votel. I don't think these military commanders opinions should be taken lightly. I'm sure there are many more that are still in uniform that would speak out if they could.

You keep thinking Trumps a genius if you want. I think the general consensus of commanders with experience in the ME is...... he's a fool.

But maybe, like Trump, you know more than they do.

You better get used to military people calling Trump out. "undermine U.S. national security" Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman. This guy doesn't know shit either according to Trump.

OAO.

[BehindBlueI's]

This.

It is interesting that the root cause of inner city gangs and violence is not much different then the root cause of terrorist groups. The recruitment model is fairly simple- start with a group of people with little or no relative economic options. Insert a demagogue who promises an “honorable” way of life , three cots and a hot, and a convenient target for the anger. With urban gangs the problem is “whitey” and the government; with terrorist groups the “Great Satan” is the bad guy.

Solve the economic problem and you kill this at the root. Problem is, there too is another parallel; gang violence is a political benefit to some US local politicians, just like terrorist groups are a useful relief valve for unstable & economically mismanaged ME monarchies. When everyone’s making money life’s pretty stable. When someone’s got a house of starving kids and no realistic solutions, look out. This is not to excuse the individual actions of those involved- but the power model is essentially the same.

Jordan's king said earlier this year that what keeps him up at night isn't ISIS or the refugee problem, it's unemployment among the 18-35 year old males. There's going to be a culture shift there, women are graduating high school and college at higher rates then men and moving into more technical jobs. I have a niece who's a researcher and complains that she can't do anything with stem cells due to the laws there, but the country is working to provide support for tech related start-ups. Entrepreneurship is seen as a way to battle unemployment.

[BehindBlueI's]

One thing that surprises me is that I read almost no criticism of the Muslim world view toward females. Until recently I had a friendship with a Muslim guy from a tribal region of Pakistan. At age 12 he volunteered to join Afghanistan forces and fought the Russians. In our discussions he defended this world view of women over and over. I told him that he was full of shit. We are no longer friends.

Speaking of changing views and the infiltration of western culture:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-50248949

Saudi wrestler Mansoor...told WWE.com that many female members of his family could not wait to watch the match live.
....

"I was, like, 'absolutely', because when I grew up here the idea of men and women even sitting in the same arena to watch a show was unheard of. We have women driving now. Just the changes that have been in this country, every single time I come back, are astronomical. I'm so incredibly proud that I am going to be there."

I'm pretty surprised at this myself. I guess the conservatives are losing power fast or the powers that be see the writing on the wall, but I'd have laughed off the suggestion that this would be a thing if you'd told me a few years ago. Or even that they would want this to be a thing.

[HCM]

https://www.boston.com/news/politics...combat-veteran

Trump to welcome military working dog Conan to White House