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Thread: Would you stay on a volunteer security team like this?

  1. #21
    Lwt16: Congrats, that is the best write up I’ve ever seen on the subject of church security.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Inspector71 View Post
    Lwt16: Congrats, that is the best write up I’ve ever seen on the subject of church security.
    Agreed...I almost wish his church was hiring for a new Music Director!!

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by TexasSiegfried View Post
    Agreed...I almost wish his church was hiring for a new Music Director!!
    How about a cafe manager position?

    Thanks for the positive feedback but our team has been a work in progress for about 15-18 years.......way back before church security teams were the cool thing to do. At first, it was just three cops agreeing to spread out in the pews and to bring our duty guns and gear with us.

    Over the years it blossomed into a decently well ran ministry. We are 35-40 members strong with armed and unarmed positions. We also have dedicated radio gurus that keep our new digital Motorola system up and running as they work out the bugs. We've also had several generous donors over the years to earmark funds for additional training and CCTV camera/monitor/computer upgrades.

    We have three campuses as well as a school so we have tons of cameras....both stationary and domes including parking lot cameras. In addition, we hire on duty police to have a multi tiered level of security as well as a private security company with marked units.

    Our biggest struggle is our children's area is scattered about the main campus and our new pastor has a visionary plan to secure that up into a sort of one way in one way out area......and we already do the sign in/sticker badge thing with parents and kids. Full background checks on all children's area staffing is mandatory and getting that area of the church more secure is the focus for 2020/2021.

    Oh...and for the OP.....we run a METRIC TON of medical calls as we have an aging congregation. If you aren't focusing on stop the bleed/AED/CPR you might be behind the curve a bit. We used to rely on our ushers to handle that but the powers that be decided to send us to classes (8 hour) to get that responsibility better handled. I will say that once we started that aspect....and being blessed to have each and every incident so far run like a well oiled machine......donations earmarked for security started pouring in.

    Our membership has grown over the last couple of years and the pastor has told us that one of the biggest things he hears is people feel safer with us around.....and that had nothing to do with shooting it out with terrorists. It's based on watching us treat folks who are down until our paramedic service can get there. It's a good angle to "sell" security to church admin.

    Regards.

  4. #24
    Four String Fumbler Joe in PNG's Avatar
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    Feb 2011
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    Old folks having some sort of medical problem, drunk or crazy dudes getting rambunctious on campus, creepers lurking around the kiddy area, aggressive panhandlers- all are more likely to be problems faced by a security team than a bunch of Jihadis shooting up the joint.

    But those aren't as cool.
    "You win 100% of the fights you avoid. If you're not there when it happens, you don't lose." - William Aprill
    "I've owned a guitar for 31 years and that sure hasn't made me a musician, let alone an expert. It's made me a guy who owns a guitar."- BBI

  5. #25
    Member
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    Jan 2016
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    The Hills of Tennessee
    lwt16,

    It sounds like you guys are well down the road with an established and supported team.

    We are "greeters", some are armed. Most are not. Our job is to interview, intercept, and lastly act. Out lead is a former deputy with several training classes under his belt and a good head on his shoulders. We have been advocating for a camera system, which we finally got, and radios are coming. A couple have basic CPR and first aid training, and we have a couple good first aid kits. Honestly, the hands on and shooting skills are the last thing we are concerned with right now. Until some issues are taken care of with the insurance, the group lead is afraid to do any group training.

    For the OP, I would be hesitant to stay on with a group that wasn't at least discussing and concerned with the legal aspects of use of force. While I too feel it is important to serve your church, maybe this is one you cannot do.

    Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

  6. #26
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    Dec 2011
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    the Deep South
    Is there anything to prevent the OP from carrying his pistol in church and not being on the security team, e.g. state law? I'm not on the security team at my church, but I can't remember the last time I was in church without a pistol. The law here is very gun friendly, so I don't need to be on the security team to legally carry a pistol in church, though it would provide me some immunity to civil liability in the event I was involved in a shooting during performance of security duties. Anyway, what's the big benefit to being on the security team?

  7. #27
    OP: Where are you? What, if any, established training venues are within a days drive of you?

    What are the chances of doing a group buy of Andrew Branca's law of Self Defense for your state? Not to mention MAG 40?
    I believe there is at least one "big name" trainer doing a course on church/school security -- Ellefritz?
    Recovering Gun Store Commando. My Blog: The Clue Meter
    “It doesn’t matter what the problem is, the solution is always for us to give the government more money and power, while we eat less meat.”
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  8. #28
    Gucci gear, Walmart skill Darth_Uno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangloss View Post
    Is there anything to prevent the OP from carrying his pistol in church and not being on the security team, e.g. state law? I'm not on the security team at my church, but I can't remember the last time I was in church without a pistol. The law here is very gun friendly, so I don't need to be on the security team to legally carry a pistol in church, though it would provide me some immunity to civil liability in the event I was involved in a shooting during performance of security duties. Anyway, what's the big benefit to being on the security team?
    That’s why my church, being fairly small (average 120 or so on Sunday mornings) doesn’t have an official church-sanctioned security team. So, our “security team” is a group of concerned members with varying degrees of abilities (and commitment). If something happened, my nominal title may be Head of Security but I’d be responding as a CHL holder who just happened to be at church.

    While the church likes the idea of one, they don’t want the liability. In the unlikely but not impossible event of a shooting, we don’t want it kicked back at us that we sent someone out to be armed security with no training, qualifications, protocol or oversight. And I’ve stressed to everyone involved that the church has no policy besides state law on carrying weapons, and anyway we’re far more likely to assist a senior or politely bounce the occasional tweaker.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Lester Polfus View Post
    The first three thoughts that went through my head when I heard "volunteer armed church security" were:

    1) What kind of written agreement is in place between you and the church to indemnify you and cover your legal fees in the case of a criminal or civil case?

    2) What are the laws in your state regarding armed security, and are you running afoul of them?

    3) None of this would matter to me because I'd rather slam my balls in a car door than be on an armed, volunteer security team.
    Took the thoughts literally straight out of my brain. In our other church security thread, I expressed how unimpressed I've been by "church security" operations, and this thread is really not helping improve that perception.

  10. #30
    Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth_Uno View Post
    That’s why my church, being fairly small (average 120 or so on Sunday mornings) doesn’t have an official church-sanctioned security team. So, our “security team” is a group of concerned members with varying degrees of abilities (and commitment). If something happened, my nominal title may be Head of Security but I’d be responding as a CHL holder who just happened to be at church.

    While the church likes the idea of one, they don’t want the liability. In the unlikely but not impossible event of a shooting, we don’t want it kicked back at us that we sent someone out to be armed security with no training, qualifications, protocol or oversight. And I’ve stressed to everyone involved that the church has no policy besides state law on carrying weapons, and anyway we’re far more likely to assist a senior or politely bounce the occasional tweaker.

    The way you described this brings up a question. Suppose you're politely bouncing the occasional tweaker and he breaks your nose. Are you on the hook for your own medical bills or does the church Step Up?

    What if there's a legal issue what if somebody sues you for forcibly ejecting them from the church? Who pays your legal bills?

    I know a lot of people here are not impressed with the security team at my church and I don't really care but that is one thing they have done well. They have very clearly spelled out the circumstances under which they will cover any medical bills arising from a security team member's service to the church.

    They've also very clearly spelled out the circumstances under which they will cover you legally.

    I personally think that's really important if you're going to act as an agent of the church official or otherwise.

    I've said this before but after the new life church shooting Jeanne Assam did not so much as open her mouth without Brady Boyd and one of the church's legal team standing right there with her. And almost every statement she gave to the media was prepared.

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