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Thread: RFI - Gen 3 .40 Glock stopgap refurbishing until new guns can be gotten

  1. #1
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    RFI - Gen 3 .40 Glock stopgap refurbishing until new guns can be gotten

    Question for the folks who actually have and maintain a comprehensive firearms service schedule of duty Glock pistols - what would constitute a "stopgap" refurbish of a .40 Gen 3 G23 until new pistols are procured, hopefully during the 20/21 FY.
    A little background information first - We had one of our fourteen year old Gen 3 G23s go down hard at the annual qualification session on Monday. Multiple failures to eject and extract with all issued magazines.
    I suspected a locking block or pin failure. Sure enough, the locking block was broken in two, the trigger pin was broken and missing a third of it, and the locking block pin was bent. This has happened twice before with these older G23s that were utilized as academy training guns with correspondingly high round counts. This particular gun concerned me more because it has been issued to the same veteran deputy since July '05. He is also a shooter on his own time, which leads me to believe his pistol has a higher round count than average. Most of our folks are not shooters.
    For the non shooters, the round counts on these guns is probably around the two thousand five hundred mark. Recoil springs were finally changed last year on nearly all of the '05 pistols. Turns out that this deputy's gun did not get the new spring and he practiced over the weekend before his qual.
    Our Comptroller asked for a dollar figure to get the older guns in a better condition until the new ones can be bought.
    This is what I came up with:

    Part # 4361 – Locking Block - $20 each x about 250 guns still in service – I am trying to get an exact count. $5000 total
    Part# 4368 – Locking Block Pin - $2 each x 250= $500 total
    Part #420 – Trigger Pin - $2 each x 250= $500 total
    Part #2317 – Slide lock spring - $2 each x 250 +$500 total
    Grand total without night sights - $6500

    If new night sights are included:
    Part #39724 – Glock Night sights - $67 each x 250=$16750
    Grand total with new night sights - $23250

    This does not include labor.
    I am inclined to omit the new night sights at this time. We have not had night fire in-service since the Great Recession. (That is decided way above my pay grade).

    Thoughts? Constructive criticism is always welcome.

  2. #2
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    At that round count I wouldn't be too worried about wholesale locking block replacement.

    I would look at trigger spring replacement first. With those few rounds pin replacement would be a nice to have as opposed to a dire necessity.

    Obviously that would apply to heavily shot guns , just the 2500 round count ones.
    Last edited by BigT; 10-16-2019 at 08:05 AM.
    Welcome to Africa, bring a hardhat.

  3. #3
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    Have you already reached out to Glock to see what they are willing to do to keep you a Glock agency? If you don’t get any traction, then keep it simple and just replace the RSAs if you weren’t already doing that and replace other parts as needed.

  4. #4
    Site Supporter psalms144.1's Avatar
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    Bloomington, IN
    Some random thoughts:

    At a round count of 2,500 on average, I would expect NO parts breakages, even with a relatively hard recoiling round in a light gun. Having said that, out of an excess of caution, I'd order a SMALL sample of all of those parts (maybe enough for 10% replacement), then do a 100% inspection looking for accelerated wear. Replace only those parts that look out of spec, and save money to have more available to buy better firearms.

    Agree with other posters that if your agency reached out to GLOCK about a wholesale swap of pistols, I'm betting they would be VERY pleased with the offer GLOCK made for a direct exchange of G23s for, say 19Ms or Gen5 G19 MOS pistols.

    With a weapon swap coming in the next year or so, I would not spend any money on night sights. The ones on your pistols have far surpassed the halflife of the tritium in them, but you gotta play the cards dealt you. It doesn't sound like a good use of tax payer money to get new sights now...

  5. #5
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    With over 10 year old pistols, it's not worth putting almost $100 per pistol into them when you could get new pistols from Glock for about $100 per pistol. Adding in staff time makes it a huge waste of resources. I would order 10-15 locking blocks, pins, etc. and have them on hand for parts breakage. I would replace all springs, including mag springs and perform an armorer's check on every issue pistol as they come in for qualification or yearly checks.

    Down the road, work with your comptroller or finance people to create a standard for pistol replacement, i.e. 5 years, 15k rounds, etc. and try to get your pistols listed as a capital item in the budget as part of a sinking fund. Try to list holsters and mag pouches as safety equipment, also, that should be replaced at the same interval. The way this works is, if you have 250 guns and replacement cost is $100 each with trade-in, you spread the $25k over the 5 year life cycle and put away $5k per year as a capital replacement program. At the end of the five years, you have a budget line item, put it out to bid for the pistol replacement and arrange the transition. Same for the holsters and mag pouches, 250 units at approximately $175 per set equals $43,750 spread over five years, it's $8,750 per year that your Department puts away and every five years you get new equipment, the gear looks good, and you've pre-planned for a budget expense which makes your boss look good.

    Ask your Finance people for help, bring them donuts and coffee, maybe take them to lunch, and get allies in this process.

    You can sell this Admin as part of an annual armorer's check program to reduce liability, comply with best practices in the industry, provide good safety gear to assist with good morale, and responsibly manage department resources to budget for reoccurring expenses.

    PM me if you need memo examples, etc.

    I'm a Patrol Sgt., Rangemaster, Glock, Beretta, Rem 700 armorer and have a BPA in Public Administration. I purchase over $150k worth of gear and supplies yearly, for a small, suburban police department.
    Last edited by paherne; 10-16-2019 at 11:51 AM.

  6. #6
    Site Supporter farscott's Avatar
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    Disclaimer: Not LE and not involved in any .gov purchasing.

    That being said, it appears there have been three failures of pistols in fourteen years. My first thought is that every pistol needs to be inspected and the results of that inspection be used to determine how to proceed. I would be surprised if that inspection revealed more than ten pistols had damaged parts. If so, the $6500 would buy ten new pistols and then some. If it does show a large percentage of issued firearms need repairs, the justification is in the data from the inspection for a purchase of service parts. I cannot see any manager approving a blanket purchase of 100% of parts with no data.

    Another thought would be to reach out to Glock LE sales and see if Glock will send the department an armorer and a pile of parts, especially if a new contract is going to be put out for bid. Sorta like going to a GSSF match.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by JF1 View Post
    Have you already reached out to Glock to see what they are willing to do to keep you a Glock agency? If you don’t get any traction, then keep it simple and just replace the RSAs if you weren’t already doing that and replace other parts as needed.
    I don't think anyone here is blaming Glock. We were the second agency in Virginia to purchase Glock pistols in the late '80s. Despite our institutional ineptitude, our several large batches bought and traded over the last thirty years have exceeded our expectations. I will be surprised if we even entertain the notion of switching to another make.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by farscott View Post
    Disclaimer: Not LE and not involved in any .gov purchasing.

    That being said, it appears there have been three failures of pistols in fourteen years. My first thought is that every pistol needs to be inspected and the results of that inspection be used to determine how to proceed. I would be surprised if that inspection revealed more than ten pistols had damaged parts. If so, the $6500 would buy ten new pistols and then some. If it does show a large percentage of issued firearms need repairs, the justification is in the data from the inspection for a purchase of service parts. I cannot see any manager approving a blanket purchase of 100% of parts with no data.

    Another thought would be to reach out to Glock LE sales and see if Glock will send the department an armorer and a pile of parts, especially if a new contract is going to be put out for bid. Sorta like going to a GSSF match.
    We now have several armorers on board. However, we have no full time firearms section. All of the instructor/armorers have other primary duties. With around 400 sworn FT and PT staff, I think a firearms section needs to be established and our own range facility constructed. (We share with the county PD). Parts procurement has been deficient. There needs to be a person of authority responsible for ensuring that inspections take place and sufficient parts are on hand. I did not have any locking blocks on hand to repair the pistol in question.
    Last edited by deputyG23; 10-16-2019 at 02:02 PM.

  9. #9
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    The purpose of reaching out to Glock is to see if they’d entertain upgrading your pistols to Gen 5s since you were considering buying new pistols in another year or two. They’ve been very accommodating in some cases. Up to you to figure out your strategy.

  10. #10
    Another strategy depending on your departmental policy would be to go ahead and replace the parts you mention (and I'd add a TRS and agree on forgoing the sights, but that's just me). But spending a small amount of money now to maintain what you have and instill some confidence could be returned later if your department sells them as surplus. What are we talking, $30'ish per pistol? Doesn't seem to be a heavy lift and you might get $150+ for them later when you do upgrade/replace.

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