Trigger control-focused training: HK LEM vs DA revolver

[Chris17404]

Hi all,

I've been primarily a Glock shooter my entire shooting life (about 15 years). I'm very happy with them. This spring, based on everything I've read here on PF about the HK P30 LEM, I decided to purchase one and shoot it exclusively for a while. I also got a JMCK AIWB holster for it. Wow, what an eye-opening and enlightening experience it has been. The pistol has a lot positive attributes, and it *really* made me focus on trigger control. I mean *really* focus. Patience, focus, proper grip, patience, focus, proper grip, etc. I had suspected that over this summer I had become a significantly better shooter accuracy-wise. So today instead of the P30 I brought my old tried and true Glock 19 to the range. My suspicion was correct. I shot that G19 better than I ever had. It was like I was on auto-pilot. Anyway, it got me thinking...

I do like a lot of what the P30 offers in a pistol, but I don't know if I want to invest in another P30, a P30SK, P30L, sights, mags, etc to transition fully. I really like my Glocks and am invested in them. So I was thinking of perhaps simply keeping the P30 as a gun I shoot now and then when I really want to focus on trigger control. That made me also think if I can get the same benefit of trigger control-focused training in a DA revolver. If I were to own just one: HK P30 LEM or DA revolver, which would be the better dedicated trigger control gun? What are the pros and cons of each choice as it relates to trigger control training? I currently only have a S&W 442 and would like to add a S&W 586, so maybe to acquire that I'd sell the P30. Anyone with experience in both platforms have input? Thanks for your time.

Chris

[HCM]

Hi all,

I've been primarily a Glock shooter my entire shooting life (about 15 years). I'm very happy with them. This spring, based on everything I've read here on PF about the HK P30 LEM, I decided to purchase one and shoot it exclusively for a while. I also got a JMKC AIWB holster for it. Wow, what an eye-opening and enlightening experience it has been. The pistol has a lot positive attributes, and it *really* made me focus on trigger control. I mean *really* focus. Patience, focus, proper grip, patience, focus, proper grip, etc. I had suspected that over this summer I had become a significantly better shooter accuracy-wise. So today instead of the P30 I brought my old tried and true Glock 19 to the range. My suspicion was correct. I shot that G19 better than I ever had. It was like I was on auto-pilot. Anyway, it got me thinking...

I do like a lot of what the P30 offers in a pistol, but I don't know if I want to invest in another P30, a P30SK, P30L, sights, mags, etc to transition fully. I really like my Glocks and am invested in them. So I was thinking of perhaps simply keeping the P30 as a gun I shoot now and then when I really want to focus on trigger control. That made me also think if I can get the same benefit of trigger control-focused training in a DA revolver. If I were to own just one: HK P30 LEM or DA revolver, which would be the better dedicated trigger control gun? What are the pros and cons of each choice as it relates to trigger control training? I currently only have a S&W 442 and would like to add a S&W 586, so maybe to acquire that I'd sell the P30. Anyone with experience in both platforms have input? Thanks for your time.

Chris

Carried an issued LEM for 8 years.

IME the DA Revolver is the best training tool for the LEM. The LEM is kind of its own animal.

The other issue is ammo logistics. A 986 might be more practical than a 586.

[Sauer Koch]

The LEM is kind of its own animal.

An important factor to consider when discussing the LEM.

[gomerpyle]

Which version of the LEM do u have - v1 or v4?

If v1, then I'd consider changing out to a v4. I would then stick with a v4 P30 LEM.

[Tom Duffy]

Carried an issued LEM for 8 years.

IME the DA Revolver is the best training tool for the LEM. The LEM is kind of its own animal.

The other issue is ammo logistics. A 986 might be more practical than a 586.

I’m curious as to why that is. I shoot the revolver with the groove of my trigger finger. I’m much more accurate with my finger pad when shooting the LEM. They don’t seem that similar to me.

I own a 986. It’s been back to Smith twice for repair. With its .356+ barrel diameter, the best group you can hope for is a about 3” at 25 yards. Ammo cost aside, I’d pick a 586 if I had it to do over again.

[HCM]

I’m curious as to why that is. I shoot the revolver with the groove of my trigger finger. I’m much more accurate with my finger pad when shooting the LEM. They don’t seem that similar to me.

I own a 986. It’s been back to Smith twice for repair. With its .356+ barrel diameter, the best group you can hope for is a about 3” at 25 yards. Ammo cost aside, I’d pick a 586 if I had it to do over again.

Trigger finger placement varies with each individual and gun. The correlation between D a revolver shooting in the LEM is in how you manage the trigger. Both are run best buy full trigger stroke while maintaining contact with the trigger.

[Mark D]

I find that frequent practice with the LEM transfers well to Glocks. But I don't think LEM is forgiving if one just uses it occasionally. I need to work it frequently in dry fire and/or live fire to remain proficient.

For what it's worth, training with my J frames improves my performance with Glocks and LEM alike.

[spinmove_]

I’m curious as to why that is. I shoot the revolver with the groove of my trigger finger. I’m much more accurate with my finger pad when shooting the LEM. They don’t seem that similar to me.

I’d wager it’s because the rest of the ergos between those two guns are completely different and therefore your hand and trigger finger will interface with each gun differently.

[RevolverRob]

I shot both for awhile and kept the DA revolvers and traded the HKs. BUT - I don't think that means much, because I'm more sentimental about the revolvers and the German bricks were just bricks to me.

That said, I don't think in either case you gain much benefit from occasional use and training. In my experience you have to dedicate 100% dry-fire and about 90% of live-fire to working with the more complex trigger system. Occasional training is just there to remind you, that you know how the gun works.

I wouldn't necessarily say you need to go "all in" on getting a P30 an sk, etc. Just get a few mags, a holster, and keep shooting the P30. If it breaks, you can switch back to your Glock with a quick range sessions and a few dry-fire sessions without a problem. Mechanistically, they are very interchangeable.

The key word there though is IF it breaks. Because unlike a Glock, a 1911, or even a revolver, I'm not convinced one can actually break an HK (particularly P30 or USP in 9mm), without like...I dunno...turning a torch onto it. Seriously, the lone HK failure I've seen posted here on P-F in 2019 was a trigger return spring in a P2000 that had looks like roughly 10,000 presses on it and that is a rarity that surprised folks (including me).