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Thread: Ft. Worth Police Officer Shoots Woman Through Her Window

  1. #21
    banana republican blues's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by omega9 View Post
    It also doesn’t mean that they should be surprised that when a cold front rolls in people leave their doors and windows open and turn off the AC. Also, in America, people are allowed to live in a pigsty, it doesn’t mean a burglar has tossed the place.

    If the neighbor had rolled up and went into the backyard and shot her through the window where would he be now?
    If you're going to quote me, then at least do me the courtesy of acknowledging what I said:

    None of which is offered as a defense for faulty thinking, perception or tactics.
    I managed to get through an entire career, in which I pulled my firearm on individuals hundreds of times, without experiencing such a nightmare.

    I don't really need to be lectured on what's allowed in America.
    Last edited by blues; 10-13-2019 at 09:02 PM.
    There's nothing civil about this war.

    Read: Harrison Bergeron

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by El Cid View Post
    I wouldn’t hold my breath. The two incidents while tragically similar, are different in legally important aspects. He was there because he was called to be there, not through an error of going to the wrong residence. If his post shooting statement says she pointed the gun at him he may not even get indicted.

    Don’t get me wrong. I think he fucked up badly based on what we know. But what happens next is anyone’s guess.
    Yeah it was kinda sarcasm but not really. I know their vastly different circumstances, but fuck that guy anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by HCM View Post
    Context matters. Comparing this to the Guyger situation is just stupid.
    Calm your tits.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Stephanie B View Post
    The clip I saw had him giving no indication that he was a cop. He yelled and fired within a second or two.

    My streaming app is really really good at getting the audio out of sync with the video. Probably not the case here but it didn't even seem to be a full second to me between the verbal and shot.

    A woman alone at home sees some clown in her backyard. Is it unreasonable for her to have a weapon handy?

    Absolutely not. Not in my mind. I know I would be armed for sure.

    If you think your neighbor is in distress, do you call the cops, now that you have the knowledge that some trigger-happy clown might kill your neighbor? How does that neighbor in Ft. Worth live with the knowledge that, but for his calling the cops, his neighbor would still be alive?

    Was she swatted?
    See above.

    Too many unknowns, but I can see Ft. Worth best be getting some info out to the public. Based purely on the visual it looks all kinds of bad.

  4. #24
    The R in F.A.R.T RevolverRob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HCM View Post
    This occurred at 02:25 am. You know who makes up the bulk of most midnight patrol shifts ? Rookies.



    If that EOD date includes academy time this officer has less than a year on the street and is only a few months off of field training.

    Ft Worth is a pretty squared away Dept with a good training program.

    There are two things which could have helped mitigate this - experience which can be a Darwinian process and emotional control. Re: emotional control see El Cid’s prior post about fear biters and their increasing prevalence among new hires. Some of this is a training issue but it’s mostly a selection and retention issue. It’s hard to say how much of this is simply a generation brought up on zero tolerance policies and how much is trying to select “zero defect” candidates with little or no life experience.
    Yea, it occurred to me that this guy doesn't even have two full years on the job. I was thinking to myself he probably shouldn't have even been off field training. I know that's not realistic for many departments, but it would be great if they had the resources to make sure rookies stayed on field training for 18-months post-Academy. Things like this could potentially be avoided. I guess that's a separate thread in many respects, I think we've had the discussion before about the need for 'fear biters' to get flushed out of field training more often than they do. At the end of the day, these sorts of preventable tragedies are what reinforce a need to adapt training regimes to make sure some folks simply do not make it through.

    And I know I have the benefit of MMQB'ing the situation and I've never worked a day on the street wearing a badge, but damn my first thought was, "Pound on that door for a minute." We used to do A/C service for a few apartment complexes in moderate-to-high crime areas of Dallas and one of the first things you learn is to "cop knock", announce yourself loudly, wait 60-seconds, repeat, wait 60-seconds. Don't go wandering around the outside of people's homes even mid-day, unless you want to find yourself on the wrong end of a gun. I guess I just had the fortune of an actually having experience in this realm that some don't.

  5. #25
    Site Supporter Trooper224's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Cid View Post
    I’ve noticed a trend in LE where we seem to have more “fear biters” wearing a badge. Working plain clothes I’m often more concerned about getting shot by a responding uniform than a bad guy. Not sure if it’s a generational thing or the media and BLM terrorist garbage is keeping good people from even applying. It’s a shame too because we have better training tools (simunitions, virtual trainers, etc.) than ever before. We can do things during the academy and in-service to test judgement that we couldn’t even 15 years ago.

    To be fair I’ve also seen far too many situations where deadly force was appropriate both tactically and legally but not used. And that I’m confident is a result of the media garbage.
    Amen brother.

    Every time a police tragedy happens the catch all response involves more training. The caliber of LE training nation wide is higher than it's ever been. However, only so much can be accomplished through training. Training doesn't create ability, it hones and sharpens it. First, you have to have a fully formed and mature human being to work with, one that possesses a good set of critical thinking skills. These are not the people our society is producing.
    We may lose and we may win, but we will never be here again.......

  6. #26
    banana republican blues's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trooper224 View Post
    Amen brother.

    Every time a police tragedy happens the catch all response involves more training. The caliber of LE training nation wide is higher than it's ever been. However, only so much can be accomplished through training. Training doesn't create ability, it hones and sharpens it. First, you have to have a fully formed and mature human being to work with, one that possesses a good set of critical thinking skills. These are not the people our society is producing.
    I don't know that they're not being produced. They may not be the people signing up for the job...and those who should be weeded out during the selection process aren't being culled from the herd for one reason or another. Political correctness would factor largely into this, imho.

    I had a similar argument with an FBI UC trainer at FLETC. After hours I sat down with him and said I don't think you can take the average agent and teach them to be a good undercover. You either have it or you don't. It takes a certain personality to deal with the stress and think on their feet.

    That is not to say that their skills cannot be refined.

    After hours, (not in the classroom), he privately agreed.
    There's nothing civil about this war.

    Read: Harrison Bergeron

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by blues View Post
    If you're going to quote me, then at least do me the courtesy of acknowledging what I said:



    I managed to get through an entire career, in which I pulled my firearm on individuals hundreds of times, without experiencing such a nightmare.

    I don't really need to be lectured on what's allowed in America.
    Sorry @blues, I wasn’t trying to lecture or call you out. I have been a member for a few years now, I don’t post a lot but I am here reading on a daily basis and I agree with most of your posts. Stuff like this just “gets my goat” so to speak. Whenever I see something like this happen, the more I realize it could happen to anyone of us dry firing in our house at 2am.

  8. #28
    Wow, I really feel for this womans son and her family. I'll wait and see if the department releases any more info. But from the video and the details released it seems like he ran it as a burglary call instead of a welfare check. I've been the police for a long time and the police still make me uneasy. I say that because when I'm at home or off duty I'm not a cop, just same random big ass black dude. It makes you pause at times and I still get nervous every time I work plain clothes and think I might have to call uniformed units in for something. That's not playing the race card, its a true concern when you work in a unit and in a particular area where almost 99.9999% of your suspects and the people you arrest are black males.

  9. #29
    Site Supporter Trooper224's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blues View Post
    I don't know that they're not being produced. They may not be the people signing up for the job...and those who should be weeded out during the selection process aren't being culled from the herd for one reason or another. Political correctness would factor largely into this, imho.

    I had a similar argument with an FBI UC trainer at FLETC. After hours I sat down with him and said I don't think you can take the average agent and teach them to be a good undercover. You either have it or you don't. It takes a certain personality to deal with the stress and think on their feet.

    That is not to say that their skills cannot be refined.

    After hours, (not in the classroom), he privately agreed.

    Good point. Things like this certainly don't give them any desire to apply.
    We may lose and we may win, but we will never be here again.......

  10. #30
    banana republican blues's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by omega9 View Post
    Sorry @blues, I wasn’t trying to lecture or call you out. I have been a member for a few years now, I don’t post a lot but I am here reading on a daily basis and I agree with most of your posts. Stuff like this just “gets my goat” so to speak. Whenever I see something like this happen, the more I realize it could happen to anyone of us dry firing in our house at 2am.
    We're cool. Thanks for taking the time.
    There's nothing civil about this war.

    Read: Harrison Bergeron

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