I'd consult a lawyer for legal advice, but according to the details you've stated, you have no special relationship with the suicidal subject until you show up on scene and start interacting, which then brings liability. Your view of liability does not comport with my understanding of the law and the expectation of the courts in my area, the 9th Circuit and specifically, CA.Originally Posted by lwt16
Tactics, training, experience.......
and even with all that.......
somebody has to go knock on that door or check that residence with the open, front door. It's not for everybody.
At that last call, there was a six month rookie that beat me there. He was deer in the headlights.....and he's a good kid.
Some calls require salty, seasoned, and "been there done that". You can't always get that officer on every call.
Real world. When life changing events happen in the blink of an eye.
Regards.
Probably from your years-long practice of making ignorant, anti-LEO statements. That’s just a guess, though.
Perhaps he or she could hire me as a paralegal or custodian. Because while I am refusing to knock on the door after being not only dispatched to it but with a sergeant on scene telling me to knock on the door, I'd be charged with a host of policy violations and likely terminated. Three years from retirement. At 50.
I fear you have a simplistic solution for a complex issue.
Thankfully, I'm not affiliated with California.
Regards.
Well, realisitcally, street police officers are today’s front-line social workers. “Law enforcement” is actually a tiny fraction of what most of us do.
Notably, when the Houston Police Academy, in Texas, was lengthened by several weeks, one of those added weeks was the 40-hour Crisis Intervention Team (C.I.T.) training. By now, the majority of Houston PD officers should be CIT trained, and attending the CIT update training, annually, is mandated. Houston PD did not invent the CIT concept, but the HPD CIT training staff became a nationally-known training entity, with some international attention, and the HPD academy a regional CIT training hub.
Yes, except perhaps where the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals decides things, your friendly neighborhood street cop is the Social Worker.
Last edited by Rex G; 10-16-2019 at 12:03 PM.
Retar’d LE. Kinesthetic dufus.
Don’t tread on volcanos!
Now you're trying to apply logic to things that cops just know that they liable for. This undefined liability is a moving set of goal post regarding an obfuscation of criminal, civil and administrative liabilities. Due to the lack of differentiation things like "if I do this I can go to prison", and "if I do this I might lose my job" carry equal weight.
I can guarantee you, that if we had gone to Ft Worth 2 weeks ago and put 500 cops through that basic scenario, 490 or so would have gone in that backyard. Why? Because they don't want to get in trouble, over something like a dead body that they could have found if they went back there, all that legal stuff regarding searches need not apply. The other 10 cops would probably be considered lazy shit bags. The problem is that liabilities aren't being weighted accordingly. It's unfortunate that's cops constantly face a dilemma of violating the law or established case law to avoid policy violations or internal investigations. You have to pick and choose your battles, it sucks. You have to know your actual liabilities and weight your risk.
The 9th circuit is one that cops everywhere should pay attention to, especially when the most liberal circuit court is re-affirming the case law regarding the police and special relationships.
Whether you think you can or you can't, you're probably right.
Reality in a lot of places is that you have to play, even though the game is rigged.
"Gunfighting is a thinking man's game. So we might want to bring thinking back into it."-MDFA
Beware of my temper, and the dog that I've found...
Jesus, this thread is making me fall out of love with "people"all over again. LE peeps: my thoughts are with you. I’m glad that all I have to worry about is not getting paid, and occasionally dealing with simmering workplace violence (seriously).
”But in the end all of these ideas just manufacture new criminals when the problem isn't a lack of criminals.” -JRB
Jails and prisons have large numbers of mentally ill persons incarcerated within. Mental heath rehab facilities don't want these folks. They lack insurance and money. Also, they in most instances will not accept violent clients. Social service agencies would have to hire additional staff or pay overtime if they were to provide assistance after hours. Budget considerations determine services. Then there has to be cooperation among agencies. So police departments are the default provider.
Once when I provided security for a large facility with assisted living and nursing home patients, I assumed many duties. When a funeral home attendant and I could not pick up a 500 pound dead man, I would call the fire department. When an old ladies' cat climbed a tree and refused to come down, I called the fire department. When the same old dude got drunk repeatedly and raised hell, I called the police department to help counsel him. When he would get drunk and run off in his wheel chair, I called the police department. When the same idiot would rant about killing himself, I called the police department. There was nobody else to call. At school, when a kid became violent or threatened to harm himself, we called the police department.
In my area cops have a better record than teachers. I know one cop who was convicted of a felony. His offense was not related to his job. I know two who were fired for cause but weapons were not part of their issues. But I know several teachers who became felons because they fucked children, and two of these teachers abused small kids. Four are doing hard time. In my career working with juveniles with criminal histories I discovered that pedophiles lined up to take these jobs.
School districts, rehab facilities, churches, and juvenile programs keep a lid on embarrassing events. Often employees have been permitted to resign and go elsewhere. When a cop fucks up and shoots a citizen, then the event becomes sensationalized. Emotions flare. We tend to generalize and form opinions not based on data. For example, I think negligent discharge was the cause. I have no proof. I think training or staffing is at fault. I have no proof. Human nature can make us defensive. Sometimes I become defensive when teachers are criticized unfairly. I respond by asking if the other person has been hit, bit, scratched, kicked, spit on, threatened, or otherwise assaulted. Me? Nobody bit me.
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