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Thread: Ft. Worth Police Officer Shoots Woman Through Her Window

  1. #161
    FWIW...

    The bodycam video indicated that Dean could not have seen the gun in her hand before firing.

    At a press conference shortly before the warrant was made public, Interim Police Chief Ed Kraus stated that there was 'absolutely no excuse' for the officer's actions and said Jefferson behaved as any Texas homeowner would have if they thought someone was stalking around their home.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-shooting.html

  2. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by blues View Post
    An old partner up in NYC went out to help complete a background check on a potential recruit. Just a few questions to dot the i's and cross the t's.

    Knocked on a door, explained to the resident why he was there, was invited in and then held at gunpoint for many hours because the individual "knew why he was there". He eventually was able to talk himself out of the residence to safety.

    None of us had an idea that he was in any peril when we went home for the day.

    The D.A. and U.S. Attorney declined prosecution.

    There is (really) no such thing as routine.
    No there is not. I recently asked several coworkers to assist with canvassing I In area for surveillance video in reference to a current I recently asked several coworkers to assist with canvassing A residential neighborhood for video pursuant to a case. One of our two man teams knocked on the door in daylight and were met by a homeowner pointing a gun at them and freaking out despite the fact that they were clearly marked as law-enforcement officers.

  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mystery View Post
    I see your point. Belief should be from something, not just from imagination.
    There was no mention of weapon, fake or not, in this case.
    The video had a picture of a gun inside the home without any relation to the shooting, as far as the news reported.
    As far as proving, it won't bring a life back and I don't think any officer feels okay to kill someone by mistake as long as it's justifiable.
    Mystery,The legal standards for law-enforcement use of force in the United States are set forth in the US Supreme Court decision in Graham vs Conner.

    The decision is clearly written in plain English. I would strongly recommend that you read it. It will answer many of the questions you have raised and clear up some of the misconceptions that you seem to be operating under.

    https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/490/386/

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graham_v._Connor
    Last edited by HCM; 10-15-2019 at 05:54 PM.

  4. #164
    banana republican blues's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HCM View Post
    No there is not. I recently asked several coworkers to assist with canvassing I In area for surveillance video in reference to a current I recently asked several coworkers to assist with canvassing A residential neighborhood for video pursuant to a case. One of our two man teams knocked on the door in daylight and were met by a homeowner pointing a gun at them and freaking out despite the fact that they were clearly marked as law-enforcement officers.
    On the other hand, I've knocked on doors and had women home alone with small children allow me entry to get an eye on a location from a particular vantage point.

    In one or more instances I had them call their spouse and let me speak with them. In all cases, after thanking them for their courtesy and cooperation, I urged them to never do this again. (Selfish, I know.)

    You just never know wtf you'll encounter.
    There's nothing civil about this war.

    Read: Harrison Bergeron

  5. #165
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    I've recently been in the following situation

    2 am.
    had long day at work. Sound asleep.
    Wife was up late...can't remember why.
    Kid was asleep.
    Wife investigates sound she hears in living room.
    Sees door knob turning and someone trying to jimmy the lock.
    Hears multiple men's voices.
    panic.
    She rushes into master bedroom to tell me someone is trying to get in.
    I grab pistol.
    I move to near by office that has good vantage point to see how many are trying to get in.
    I see a crowd of DPS officers.
    I lay down the pistol.
    Go to front door and ask what the issue is and if I can help.
    I then hear loudly--DPS!
    I announce I'm coming out and un armed.
    Open door--immediate lights in my face.
    hands are visible.
    Turns out someone phoned in a child distress call on my address.
    I ask again how I can help.
    They declined and left irritated that they can't locate where the call was from.

    Another story a few years back but somewhat relevant.

    https://www.kbtx.com/home/headlines/...243993261.html

    No knock warrant at night. Homeowner wanted on drug charges, shoots and kills constable thinking it was a home invasion. Although drug charges stuck, he was no billed on murder charges.

    This outraged a lot of people but Texas self defense statues at night are unbelievably lenient and have been adjudicated as such.


    The whole point being that training and procedural elements are a bigger issue than who is legally culpable.

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by Redhat View Post
    Anyone know what information was initially given to the responding officers by the dispatcher?
    Twenty three years on the job has shown me that dispatcher/call info is accurate about 35 percent of the time. Location/address is usually quite high as far as accuracy.......

    but crucial details that would make the call safer for me, my partners, and anybody on scene are dismally weak. Thankfully, that same 23 years experience has afforded me sort of a "sixth sense" when it comes to reading between the lines on most calls. This officer in question didn't have that sort of experience under his belt.

    His call details may have been spot on and that agency may have a better way of passing along details to their line level officers. My employer.....not so much.


    Regards.

  7. #167
    Member Zincwarrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lwt16 View Post
    Twenty three years on the job has shown me that dispatcher/call info is accurate about 35 percent of the time. Location/address is usually quite high as far as accuracy.......

    but crucial details that would make the call safer for me, my partners, and anybody on scene are dismally weak. Thankfully, that same 23 years experience has afforded me sort of a "sixth sense" when it comes to reading between the lines on most calls. This officer in question didn't have that sort of experience under his belt.

    His call details may have been spot on and that agency may have a better way of passing along details to their line level officers. My employer.....not so much.


    Regards.
    This is a question to the officers. In the video, it appears his pistol is already drawn (maybe I am seeing incorrectly). Is that normal in a call of this nature? if so, why?

  8. #168
    That time of night....in my zone.....could be a home invasion robbery. In my neck of the woods, we have dope robberies a plenty. Even with a door not obviously kicked in. We have lots of knock on the door/known associates in the illicit drug trade knock, owner lets them in for a sale, and three or four armed/masked dudes follow in to take the dope and profits.

    You always assume worst case scenario and work your way down from there.

    I just left an open door call.....and pistol in hand while I swept the residence. Windy day here......we have this a lot on windy days.

    Regards.

  9. #169
    Site Supporter Rex G's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zincwarrior View Post
    This is a question to the officers. In the video, it appears his pistol is already drawn (maybe I am seeing incorrectly). Is that normal in a call of this nature? if so, why?
    If depends upon the totality of then circumstances, plus, at least for me, the duty holster, the weapon, how the weapon fits, and how cleanly it draws. At night, one hand is holding a light. Sometimes, one needs a hand free, to navigate obstacles. An “open door” can be anything from an axe murder, in progress, to a homeowner wanting to get some night air.

    I was inclined to leave a Glock holstered, in a Safariland 6360 ALS/SLS holster, with hood down, and thumb on the final release lever. A 1911, when wearing a Safariland 070, well, really, the pistol needed to be in-hand, more of the time.

    Notably, it was well within policy, to have the duty handgun in-hand, while checking an alarm or open door/window, at night.
    Retar’d LE. Kinesthetic dufus.

    Don’t tread on volcanos!

  10. #170
    Member Zincwarrior's Avatar
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    Notably, it was well within policy, to have the duty handgun in-hand, while checking an alarm or open door/window, at night.
    Thanks. I was wondering if that was normal given the circumstances.

    AS that appears normal, what are the procedures / training generally in place to avoid what occurred?
    Translation: If you were teaching someone, what would the procedure be for how to approach the situation. What procedure keeps this from happening?*


    *Note I am of the mind this could have been an ND scenario, where the officer shouted and discharged without intending to do so. This is based only on the video and the short time between shout and shot.

    To be clear this is not a criticism or trap, but a question of interest to get a better understanding.
    Last edited by Zincwarrior; 10-16-2019 at 09:27 AM.

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