Would it be better if a social worker of some sort did that check? It seems that a lot of interactions are with people who need social/psychological services vs. law enforcement. Pardon the pun but they are sending someone who arrests people to a medical situation. *
Again this is not a criticism.
* A separate issue of mine, like sending an electrician to a plumbing job, except people may get stupid and shoot at the electrician.
Sure.....till he takes him/her hostage and smokes them and then himself.Originally Posted by Zincwarrior
In this case, it's his crazy ex trying to stir up drama. That's all it is.
But again, you gotta assume the worst.
And if i had been forced to dump him, the color of his skin wouldn't have had a thing to do with it.
Regards.
So what I understand just from reading, is the officer was outside and saw "someone" in the window...don't know if he saw the gun or not as stories have varied. Woman inside sees someone outside and may have had gun in hand or even pointed it at the window/person outside. If I try to put myself in each of those positions...it seems easy to see this has developed into a bad situation....that may be better avoided all together if possible.
I would emphasize, I'm only talking about this situation not what could be or has been seen before. From my point of view as a know nothing, absent some noises like screaming, breaking objects...etc, it would take some convincing for me to start walking around someone's house in the dark before I tried other options such as attempting a phone call to the residence or maybe contacting the person who made the call as they might know the resident. I'll also ask the obvious dumb question...why not knock on the door? Is there a reason to rush into something if I don't see, hear or smell something that tells me I need to?
We wouldn't go to your call. We would try to call the subject on the phone and see if he wanted help. If he's not shooting out the windows at other people, why go? Hayes v. County of San Diego and Sheehan v City and County of SF have provided notice that being suicidal in your own house is not a good situation for police to insert themselves in in the 9th Circuit and especially California. If you can't win, the only way to be successful is to not play.
He had his phone cut off due to her calling him and being a drama queen.
If I'm dispatched, I have to go.
In case he did shoot himself, but not fatally (seen that a bunch) and is lying there in pain and agony.
So I just drive off? Refuse to go? All documented on camera?
Next of kin would LOVE to pounce on that. Then I'd be on the witness stand.....without good answers to the tough questions.
Assets are up for grabs. My house and toys.
You'd be surprised how many people shoot themselves, survive, and then desperately want to be saved.
Regards.
A man with a gun who is reportedly threating to kill himself (homicidal ideations being assumed until ruled out) is a man with a gun call, not a medical call.
"Send a social worker" also sounds like a great idea until you realize that it doesn't exist. Social workers in most places are 9-5 office people that don't respond to "hot calls" from a 911 dispatcher. The hospital system I used to work for was a regional crisis center that had an on-call response team of mental health professionals that would respond concurrent to the police, but keep in mind even then the cops are coming from a few minutes away whereas the crisis team was covering the entire county.....and regardless, it's a public safety issue first, and a medical issue second. You can let your good idea fairy run rampant, and the second some crisis worker gets killed or some bystander smoked by an SI/HI subject I'm sure you'll still be at the front of the line to criticize the cops and call for them to be imprisoned.
Last edited by TGS; 10-16-2019 at 11:39 AM.
"Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer
Wouldn't a social worker or crisis intervention type person be better at handling it if they were suicidal though? Aren't your options really to talk to them or shoot them, whereas a crisis intervention may be better at the talking part?
Where's the hostility coming from? Another option is better mental health training, a third is to have a team of them and police."Send a social worker" also sounds like a great idea until you realize that it doesn't exist. Social workers in most places are 9-5 office people that don't respond to "hot calls" from a 911 dispatcher. The hospital system I used to work for was a regional crisis center that had an on-call response team of mental health professionals that would respond concurrent to the police, but keep in mind even then the cops are coming from a few minutes away whereas the crisis team was covering the entire county.....and regardless, it's a public safety issue first, and a medical issue second. You can let your good idea fairy run rampant, and the second some crisis worker gets killed or some bystander smoked by an SI/HI subject I'm sure you'll still be at the front of the line to criticize the cops and call for them to be imprisoned.
I am just looking at it that the government is often sending out law enforcement to deal with a mental health /drug crisis in the country. They aren't giving you the tools to do your job, and putting you in no win situations.
Last edited by Zincwarrior; 10-16-2019 at 11:47 AM.
You're in luck.
I am CIT trained with a Bachelors in Psychology.
Sure, if the guy WANTS to talk.....I'm probably going to be able to help him.
If he peeks out the door and shoots through it with an AK.........cause remember....he hates cops......
Well, negotiations have broken down before they really even got started.
And I'm lying there shot.........
Over drama.
Welcome to law enforcement.
Regards.
Last edited by lwt16; 10-16-2019 at 11:45 AM.
I guess I am really leaning into a thread that would be better titled: "how can we make these crappy situations better?"
Friend of mine used to be a case manager social worker, and would make sometimes daily welfare checks on specific clients. One offed himself between daily checks, and she could see him lying on the floor through the window, but couldn’t tell if he was passed out drunk, asleep in a weird place, or dead/dying as happened to be the case. Had some decisions to make: Does she break in to provide first aid and save him, if he’s save-able? What if he’d been asleep and attacks her for breaking in before he realizes it’s his case manager? Does she call 911? Make a lot of noise outside while calling 911 and waiting for them to roll?
Complicated issues.
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