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Thread: Cooper Tunnels and Related Matters

  1. #1
    Chasing the Horizon RJ's Avatar
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    Jan 2014

    Cooper Tunnels and Related Matters

    @Clusterfrack commented in a thread in GD about a competitor who was DQ'd after an interaction with a Cooper Tunnel:

    https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....l=1#post941911

    @Cypher asked a good question about what should have happened:

    https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....l=1#post941913

    I did some research and commented in the thread about the event, quoting myself here:


    Quote Originally Posted by RJ View Post
    Bearing in mind I was not there, etc., I had to look at that in slow motion to see what happened. I've never encountered one of these "Cooper Tunnels" in my (very) short USPSA history as a D shooter. Apparently each slat dislodged is a procedural, if I read rule 10.2.5 correctly. So his stage was effectively done when he went upright through the slats, with 6 slats at 10 a piece, that's -60 points?

    Nothing against the competitor, and I hope he is ok. But as an opportunity to learn, just wanted to make a couple comments.

    Maybe the stage construction contributed to the problem, given a target was available "in the tunnel" as the competitor decided to engage on the top of the pile of slats at the end of the tunnel length. Perhaps it could be anticipated that one or more slats at the end of the tunnel could come down and present a tripping hazard to a competitor, such that targets should maybe not be able to be shot until beyond (3 feet?) the end of the tunnel? I admit I know nothing about stage design; and this may be a stupid comment.

    Of course by this point he was on a pile of wood sticks, and given he did not appear particular agile based on his gait, shooting the stage, he appeared to catch a foot at the awkward moment he was holding his pistol one-handed. Which of course whipped back beyond the 180 when he unsuccessfully balanced himself, going down hard onto the ground.


    Hard to say what I would do in a tunnel, as mentioned, I've never seen one of these obstacles. I am 5'6", so on the lower end of stature where I could probably crouch-walk through and not disturb any material overhead.

    I try very hard to keep a firm, two-handed, indexed finger grip, pointed down range, at all times. Being a lefty, my RO is typically on my left, and I try to make it very obvious where my finger is so he or she can see it, especially moving between shooting arrays of targets (which, shooing P, I am generally reloading anyway.)

    I've encountered low ports, and will try to use my elbows to brace going down; point being if I was to fall I would fall forward, two handed, and accept that I would land prone but I WOULD HANG ON TO MY GUN very very tightly indeed. I don't see any circumstances between the load and make ready and the unload and show clear that I was not laser focused on keeping the muzzle downrange.

    Anyway.

    I have a match tomorrow (first one in a while) and this, while unfortunate for the competitor to get a DQ (again, hope he is ok), thought it could be an opportunity to learn something by asking a few questions from more knowledgeable folks like @Clusterfrack here.

    Since this post is more in the nature of USPSA specific stuff, if preferred I can start a thread on Cooper Tunnels in the comp section, as I did a search and didn't find one.


    I didn't want to mix in the USPSA discussion in that thread, so decided to see if I could continue it here.

  2. #2
    Chasing the Horizon RJ's Avatar
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    So, what are Cooper Tunnels?

    Per the 1/1/19 Rulebook:

    Attachment 43585

    Pretty straightforward. Further, the rulebook says you get a procedural penalty for each item you disturb, in Rule 10.2.5, as follows:

    In a Cooper Tunnel, a competitor who disturbs one or more pieces of the overhead material will receive one procedural penalty for each piece of overhead material which falls during the course of fire. Overhead material which falls as a result of the competitor bumping or striking the uprights, or as a result of muzzle gases or recoil, will not be penalized.
    Last edited by RJ; 10-12-2019 at 04:16 PM.

  3. #3
    Deadeye Dick Clusterfrack's Avatar
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    Cooper Tunnels and Related Matters

    Quote Originally Posted by Clusterfrack View Post
    ...How to fall with a gun is a good topic for another thread, but I’ll say a few things here.

    Top priority is not shooting yourself or anyone else. This is much more important than hurting yourself by falling.

    Many uspsa guns are not drop safe.

    When you fall, hold onto the gun and keep it pointing in a safe direction until you are stable again. Make sure your finger is indexed out of the trigger guard!

    There are a lot of ways to fall, so it’s worth slow-motion practicing falling safely with an unloaded or blue gun.

    Some people are physically challenged and can’t fall without serious injuries. However, the gun still has to take top priority. This is what the Cooper Tunnel guy didn’t do. He was trying to save himself, and risked a bunch of peoples lives by losing control of his Open gun, which almost certainly was not drop safe.
    Last edited by Clusterfrack; 10-12-2019 at 04:18 PM.
    "You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
    Shabbat shalom, motherf***ers! --Mordechai Jefferson Carver

  4. #4
    Chasing the Horizon RJ's Avatar
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    So, a few questions:

    - What are the minimum / maximum height of a Cooper Tunnel, or is that left to the Stage Designer?

    - What are the penalties for moving around the Tunnel?

    - Should or should not USPSA include Cooper Tunnels in Stage Design, at all?

    - Should a Cooper Tunnel be configured so that (as in the case of this competitor) there is no "shoot" opportunity so as to allow for a mis-step on a dislodged "roof" items just after the Tunnel is transited?

    Thoughts?

  5. #5
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    I have not shot USPSA for a long time, but I was an active competitor for years in the Southeast - GA, SC, AL, FL. I do not ever remember seeing one of those tunnels at any IPSC/USPSA match.

    During that time, we had some physically challenged shooters and the ROs always figured out a way to work around their challenges.

  6. #6
    Deadeye Dick Clusterfrack's Avatar
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    A good stage should have options. The penalty for going around the CT should be time or risk. In the Oregon Championship stage discussed above, a long legged person could run around the CT in about the same time a little ninja like me could run through it. Plus for low cap divisions the risk of a reload inside the tunnel affected the strategy.

    I like a tunnel that’s just under 5’ tall.

    This stage was a great example of how to do it.
    "You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
    Shabbat shalom, motherf***ers! --Mordechai Jefferson Carver

  7. #7
    Member Zincwarrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJ View Post
    So, a few questions:

    - What are the minimum / maximum height of a Cooper Tunnel, or is that left to the Stage Designer?

    - What are the penalties for moving around the Tunnel?

    - Should or should not USPSA include Cooper Tunnels in Stage Design, at all?

    - Should a Cooper Tunnel be configured so that (as in the case of this competitor) there is no "shoot" opportunity so as to allow for a mis-step on a dislodged "roof" items just after the Tunnel is transited?

    Thoughts?
    What the heck is a Cooper Tunnel doing in a shooting competition? That tests youth, not shooting prowess.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Zincwarrior View Post
    What the heck is a Cooper Tunnel doing in a shooting competition? That tests youth, not shooting prowess.
    USPSA isn't just a test of "shooting prowess".

  9. #9
    Here is my Cooper tunnel advice — remove your hat or wear it backwards.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  10. #10
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    The only time I recall falling with a gun I slipped on some ice at work and I landed on my (employer's) M&P .40 in the holster. (that left a mark).

    Even apart from competition what if you trip in a class? Or the dog hits you in the back of your leg as your putting your gun in its holster.

    I think Clusterfrack covered it. I know my Glock is drop safe so unless maintaining control of the gun was critical like if I was in a fight I think I'd drop the gun

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