It's been zero days...

[HCM]

One of my programs former instructors was teaching us the same thing even though it goes completely against what our parent agency stresses.

While I often suspect that such concepts (along with “combat accuracy”) are simply a way to rationalize being a bad shot - I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. The guy was a former Fed Marshal and I have no doubt he did his job well but a good cop does not always equal a good firearms instructor.

Well at least he didn't tell you to do it to "spread the pain."

More relevant here, a good shooter does not always equal a good firearms instructor.

One factor is what @AsianJedi calls the "Magic Johnson" effect. MJ was a great player but he was so naturally talented he never had to work out how to do things in detail, he just did them and thus lacked the frame of reference to coach others through the details of improving their performance. Same applies to some "natural shooters."

Another is many LE/MIL FI's lack depth and/or breadth of knowledge. They are the product of small closed systems i.e. big fish in small ponds.

A third factor is telephone. FI's regurgitating incomplete info or concepts they don't fully understand. i.e. if you can't summarize or explain it simply you don't fully understand it. This results in stories like "be careful with range habits because a Drummer Boy fighting the Germans in Vietnam was killed reloading his revolver because he wasted time putting brass in his pockets because that's what he did on the range M'kay ?"

[NickA]

This thread is like a trivia game, "From a Cop, or a Gun Shop?" and you have to guess where someone saw or heard something goofy.

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[HCM]

This thread is like a trivia game, "From a Cop, or a Gun Shop?" and you have to guess where someone saw or heard something goofy.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

Trick question-it could be from a cop in a gun shop. :-)

[NickA]

Trick question-it could be from a cop in a gun shop. :-)

Mind blown.

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[scjbash]

I had gone a long time without hearing that but then last month I heard it twice. The best was "I kept failing my CCW test because we had to shoot a tight group and I'm used to shooting a large pattern like I was trained to do." No mention of who trained them to shoot a "large pattern". I'm assuming Cousin Bubba.

Last time I was in a gun shop a local PD officer said his Rangemaster told him that spreading rounds out is better than tight groups because they'll bleed out faster.

[Clusterfrack]

One of my programs former instructors was teaching us the same thing even though it goes completely against what our parent agency stresses.

While I often suspect that such concepts (along with “combat accuracy”) are simply a way to rationalize being a bad shot - I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. The guy was a former Fed Marshal and I have no doubt he did his job well but a good cop does not always equal a good firearms instructor.

Holy shit. This brought back a deeply suppressed memory of a "tactical" pistol class I took a long time ago. The coursework was interesting, and involved movement, multiple threats, and non-threats. I thought I was shooting quite well, with nice tight groups in the scoring zones. In fact my hits were noticeably tighter than the instructor, who was shooting fast splits and using the entire target (including some misses and non-threats). I didn't say anything, but he felt like he needed to justify his shooting. First, I was told that he was spreading out his hits to neutralize the targets because he was using only 9mm. Then, the misses and non-threat hits were excused by saying something like in a dynamic situation, you can't save everyone.

In hindsight, I should have left, but instead I guess I successfully forgot I wasted my money.

[Darth_Uno]

First, I was told that he was spreading out his hits to neutralize the targets because he was using only 9mm. Then, the misses and non-threat hits were excused by saying something like in a dynamic situation, you can't save everyone.

Damn, I don't remember ever teaching a class.

One factor is what @AsianJedi calls the "Magic Johnson" effect. MJ was a great player but he was so naturally talented he never had to work out how to do things in detail, he just did them and thus lacked the frame of reference to coach others through the details of improving their performance. Same applies to some "natural shooters."

I've said that about baseball a lot. Some guys are so good, they can't tell you why. They just are. While they do everything right, they can't explain it. Whereas a guy like me (in baseball and shooting) has to look at every detail to gain every edge possible, study the science behind it, and over-analyze it to the point that I have to tell myself to step back and just swing the bat/pull the trigger.

[Half Moon]

Neither cop nor gun shop but our local tacticool ninja has assured me, several times, in the breakroom: revolvers are a direct ticket to dead, more dead, and east dead. His high speed, low drag, ex- operator but can't talk about it (Ma Bell?) guru assures him a high cap, double stack is the only way to go since, under stress, you'll miss the first few shots anyways...

Long sigh...

[Borderland]

I wonder how many instructors have ever actually been in a civilian type shootout.

Maybe a few with LE experience.

Military experience would seem irrelevant because of gear, goals and tactics.

Makes me wonder where they come up with some of their ideas.

I guess people have to be creative in most business endeavors.

[GyroF-16]

One of my programs former instructors was teaching us the same thing even though it goes completely against what our parent agency stresses.

While I often suspect that such concepts (along with “combat accuracy”) are simply a way to rationalize being a bad shot - I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. The guy was a former Fed Marshal and I have no doubt he did his job well but a good cop does not always equal a good firearms instructor.

Sadly, I hear the same thing every 6 months. I just bite my tongue and go out shoot the best hits/groups, quickly, that I can deliver.
The guy who says this stuff is, otherwise, a really good firearms instructor- good techniques are suggested and we’re encouraged to “push” for good performance at speed. His idea of acceptable hits and groupings in vital areas are just really different from what we talk about here...