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Thread: Turkish Incursion into Syria

  1. #71
    banana republican blues's Avatar
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    My only point is not to write checks that can't be cashed and keep promises to a minimum.

    I've always felt this country should be more isolationist than interventionist, and that it should pick its points of intervention judiciously and act surgically.
    There's nothing civil about this war.

    Read: Harrison Bergeron

  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephanie B View Post
    The French helped us during the Revolution even though we weren't there for them during the Hundred Years' War.
    It can be argued that the French were instrumental in two war disasters for the USA.

    First, after WWI - the Vietnamese, seeing the western principles of democracy, asked the conference for the liberty from the French. It was denied. After WWII, Ho asked for USA support to keep the French out. No, we supported their imperalist bullshit - AND got the Viet Nam war. It is argued that even though Ho was a socialist (as capitalists won't support their freedom from the French after WWI and II), he was a nationalist and resisted China (a long history of such, a little war after we left).

    Second, after WWI - the imperalist desires of the French and British in the Middle East led to the artificial countries of Syria, Iraq, Jordan and Lebanon. They had no ethnic reality. The Kurds after WWI asked at the conferences if their continguous areas in what are Syria,Iraq, was left of the Ottomans (became Turkey) and Iran (but at least the first three) could be made a sensible country. But, this clashed with the imperial ambitions of the French and British. That led to the current mess.

    Of course, GWB marched into Iraq in one of the idiot moves of current times. I wonder if the true believers of Trump today were true believers in GWB. I have a friend like that. GWB was correct. There were WMDs. When GWB resisted the surge, he was a genius. Well, that war didn't work out - culture was misunderstood and Obama screwed the pooch with Maliki. Now, he thinks Bush was totally deceived by the deep state. Trump is the new genius but opposed by the deep state. Oh, well.

    Anybody here support Gulf War II. The current situation is a total mess. The Europeans and the USA lighted the fuse many times by mucking around in the area for venial interests.

    Do we care if Iran dominates the area?
    Do we want to stop religious genocides (the Evangelicals are upset that the Christians there are toast as the Turks and Isis don't like them)?
    Do we care if the end result puts Israel at risk (starting a nuclear war maybe, they weren't at Normandy).
    Do we care if oil supplies are disrupted (we have our own now but world's economy can be disrupted)?
    Do we break promises or use cognitive dissonance to devalue the promises as the promise recipients are no good!
    Last edited by Glenn E. Meyer; 10-10-2019 at 11:35 AM.

  3. #73
    Abducted by Aliens Borderland's Avatar
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    Remember how well spreading all that Democracy worked out in Iraq? I would like to think we may have learned our lesson on nation building.
    I don't think a few thousand troops in Syria is nation building.

    I was part of small group (about 200) in a country in N. Africa. We weren't there to "build" any nations with 200 military personnel. The US had military personnel there a long time (ended in the 70's) and the guy on the street never knew it. They still don't.

    Trump isn't pulling those 2K troops out of Syria anyway. He's just using the headlines to support his nationalistic policy that he thought got him elected. Lots of talk, no real action.

    The pentagon has said that none of those troops are leaving Syria but Trump is still tweeting about his righteous decision.
    In the P-F basket of deplorables.

  4. #74
    Member wvincent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borderland View Post
    I don't think a few thousand troops in Syria is nation building.

    I was part of small group (about 200) in a country in N. Africa. We weren't there to "build" any nations with 200 military personnel. The US had military personnel there a long time (ended in the 70's) and the guy on the street never knew it. They still don't.

    Trump isn't pulling those 2K troops out of Syria anyway. He's just using the headlines to support his nationalistic policy that he thought got him elected. Lots of talk, no real action.

    The pentagon has said that none of those troops are leaving Syria but Trump is still tweeting about his righteous decision.
    Talk about cherry picking snippet's to alter the context:
    Those who think we should have carved out a piece of Syria for the Kurd's, it isn't our country to carve out, and the Kurd's could never hold it with out our help. Which means boots on the ground forever.

    Remember how well spreading all that Democracy worked out in Iraq? I would like to think we may have learned our lesson on nation building.

    Our alliance with the Kurd's was based on convenience toward a mutual goal, nothing more.

    Try copy and pasting more than just fits your narrative.
    Last edited by wvincent; 10-10-2019 at 12:06 PM.
    "And for a regular dude I’m maybe okay...but what I learned is if there’s a door, I’m going out it not in it"-Duke
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  5. #75
    Site Supporter Rex G's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe in PNG View Post
    Or, the British Empire could have let the Tsar have a free hand with the Ottomans.
    True. Not until WWI did the Brits finally decide to tell a Tsar that he could have Constantinople, as a reward for staying in the fight. (Of course, Russia, instead, disintegrated into an unholy mess, leaving the British and French to really screw the pooch, in the Middle East, after WWI.)
    Retar’d LE. Kinesthetic dufus.

    Don’t tread on volcanos!

  6. #76
    Member Zincwarrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wsr View Post
    Was the promise as simple as that? I doubt if it was that straight forward.
    Again not saying we should abandon them, just trying to weed through the chaff
    I hear you, just remarking what I saw being argued on TV.

  7. #77
    Site Supporter Hambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blues View Post
    I've always felt this country should be more isolationist than interventionist, and that it should pick its points of intervention judiciously and act surgically.
    We've been interventionists since we went to the Philippines. In other words, while there have been ardent isolationists, it hasn't been in our Geo-political DNA for 120 years.
    "Gunfighting is a thinking man's game. So we might want to bring thinking back into it."-MDFA

  8. #78
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    To talk about "american isolationism" is a delusion.

    The USA is, for all practical purposes, one of the largest "empires" the world has ever known. It has "interests" everywhere.

    It operates on a basis of global hegemony by a series of alliances, pressure and interventions in other countries affairs alll over the world. Not always the intervention is by means of military force.

    As Hambo put it, it has been that way for over 120 years, and not by chance.
    Alfred Thayer Mahan and people like him were the sparks that originated the spanish-american war and the expansion of US "areas of influence" and colonies.

  9. #79
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    We were offered a chunk of the Ottoman land after WWI and wisely said no. Could the Kurds hold the land? Probably not against Turks. Against the Iraqis nonexistant, so called country and the Syrians. Probably with help but not major troops.

  10. #80
    Abducted by Aliens Borderland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wvincent View Post
    Talk about cherry picking snippet's to alter the context:
    Those who think we should have carved out a piece of Syria for the Kurd's, it isn't our country to carve out, and the Kurd's could never hold it with out our help. Which means boots on the ground forever.

    Remember how well spreading all that Democracy worked out in Iraq? I would like to think we may have learned our lesson on nation building.

    Our alliance with the Kurd's was based on convenience toward a mutual goal, nothing more.

    Try copy and pasting more than just fits your narrative.
    If you are going to continue to insist that our presence in Syria is nation building I'll have to exit the conversation.

    Adios amigo.
    In the P-F basket of deplorables.

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