Turkish Incursion into Syria

[Glenn E. Meyer]

The Kurds didn’t fight at Normandy as it is well known they have bone spurs.

[blues]

The Kurds didn’t fight at Normandy as it is well known they have bone spurs.

That actually made me LOL.

[Borderland]

The grim reality is we have two choices- fight somewhere else, or fight at home. As 9/11 and Pearl Harbor before it shows, people will pick a fight with the US no matter our intentions.

This also means we are and will be in a continual state of war with somebody. Put more directly , “withdrawing” is not an option. We may not have boots on the ground in Turkey/Kurdistan, but we have them in thousands of other commands and battlegrounds. Most never make the news.

Insofar as keeping our word with allies goes, that ship sailed with the last boat out of Saigon decades ago.

Last count 150 countries. 40K in locations the US gov't refuses to disclose.

I know that for a fact because I was in one.

[RoyGBiv]

It's not out of the realm of possibility that the experienced Kurdish fighters will bleed the dirtbag Turks like they richly deserve.

From your keyboard to God's ears.

[jetfire]

It's not out of the realm of possibility that the experienced Kurdish fighters will bleed the dirtbag Turks like they richly deserve.

It would be nice to think that, but the Kurds are mostly a light infantry force with some lightly armored vehicles. The Turks are going to roll heavy and they've got Leapord 2s as well as their own home grown heavy tank. Infantry can fight armor, but only if they can afford to spend anti-tank missles like machine gun rounds, and I don't know if the Kurds have that kind of logistics.

As much as I'd like to be on the general incompetence of the Turkish army against a battled hardened Kurdish resistance, the maths don't add up to well for the Kurds.

[JDD]

Which is what the whole concept of "allies" is based upon. Mutual self interest and a promise (via treaty, word or deed) to support the other.

A promise made is a promise kept.

When I interviewed for a job in International Affairs awhile ago, there were two points relevant to this discussion that I used.

One: The broader situation with the Turkey as a NATO ally, who is in direct conflict with a group who shares some of our national interests because of article 5 of the NATO charter. This case, the Kurds (it developed into a conversation on the feasibility of an independent Kurdish state and what were the good, short-term decisions that were made with significant long term consequences.) The prompt was for a critique of foreign policy, but it became a discussion of long term decisions vs short term ones (the US tends to be driven by the short term process, but historically we then hold onto those decisions/allies - frequently long after they are no longer influential or have utility.

Two: Every Foreign Affairs issue is a domestic political issue in two+ countries first. It is always interesting to see people hold firm opinions on complex issues that they were not aware of before the issues became a political football in domestic politics.

[RoyGBiv]

Special Ops Soldier: 'I Am Ashamed For The First Time In My Career'

[Redhat]

For those interested in learning more about who the Kurds are and their different factions as well as some history, Breitbart has a decent article here: https://www.breitbart.com/national-s...out-the-kurds/

[Glenn E. Meyer]

For those who praised OrangeManBad for pulling out troops (granted it was just a few) from a region not worth fighting for (not really our allies anyway), how about this one:

https://www.politico.com/news/2019/1...-arabia-044502

The Saudis are certainly our friends. However, IIRC, stationing troops there after GW1 was a major motivator for Osama. Also, yes - we know that the Saudis are incapable of using all the crap they bought - but is that our problem? Protect them from Iran. We don't give a crap that the moves in Syria enhance Iranian threats to Israel - seethe Friedman article in this thread. Why do we give a crap about Iran threatening Saudi Arabia? Who is getting the oil money?

I wait for Lindsey Graham to explain this.

[GardoneVT]

When I interviewed for a job in International Affairs awhile ago, there were two points relevant to this discussion that I used.

One: The broader situation with the Turkey as a NATO ally, who is in direct conflict with a group who shares some of our national interests because of article 5 of the NATO charter. This case, the Kurds (it developed into a conversation on the feasibility of an independent Kurdish state and what were the good, short-term decisions that were made with significant long term consequences.) The prompt was for a critique of foreign policy, but it became a discussion of long term decisions vs short term ones (the US tends to be driven by the short term process, but historically we then hold onto those decisions/allies - frequently long after they are no longer influential or have utility.

Two: Every Foreign Affairs issue is a domestic political issue in two+ countries first. It is always interesting to see people hold firm opinions on complex issues that they were not aware of before the issues became a political football in domestic politics.

The subject of supporting “allies” is a thorny one for the US. We obviously want to support a group which shares our values . Sometimes we get that luxury.

Other times we are put in a corner. Occasionally the options are Bad vs Worse. Saudi Arabia is a good example of this. I’m sure most rational Americans dislike the notion of people - even bad actors like Khashoggi- being dismembered in an embassy. But the alternative is regional instability and a Muslim shine falling into an unfriendly government. ISIL controlling Mecca and the national assets of Saudi Arabia is Not Good for the United States and a lot of other folks.

The choices always look easy when you’re not in the Big Chair. They rarely are in practice. Vietnam came from a no win choice between backing the French (against the then-idealogically aligned insurgency) or supporting the insurgency and seeing France turn to Soviet Russia.