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Thread: Turkish Incursion into Syria

  1. #121
    Four String Fumbler Joe in PNG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borderland View Post
    It's what we do. Trumps a rookie making rookie moves.
    Name a recent US President who hasn't. Even Ike had his share of screwups.
    "You win 100% of the fights you avoid. If you're not there when it happens, you don't lose." - William Aprill
    "I've owned a guitar for 31 years and that sure hasn't made me a musician, let alone an expert. It's made me a guy who owns a guitar."- BBI

  2. #122
    Abducted by Aliens Borderland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe in PNG View Post
    Name a recent US President who hasn't. Even Ike had his share of screwups.
    Well crap. At least they consulted their military advisors before they rang up the dip shit they were about to concede to.

    Trump has his head up his ass. Nobody with any military background wants anything to do the idiot. That should be pretty clear with all of the military defections in his cabinet.
    Last edited by Borderland; 10-12-2019 at 09:21 PM.
    In the P-F basket of deplorables.

  3. #123
    Member Zincwarrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GardoneVT View Post
    Nope.

    We tried the “mind our own business” approach before. The outcome was thousands of people dying in Hawaii one December morning. Minding our own national business is not an option- sooner or later someone’s gonna start a fight with the United States. We can either sling the lead 10,000 miles away, or wait for the bad guys to bring it to Main Street. Either way there’s gonna be a fight. OBL is a great example of this- his core beef with the US was our alliance with the Saudi Royal family (of which he was attached to). OBL was evil but he did have a geopolitical cause. There’s plenty of subhuman assholes who’d kill thousands like he did because they were bored.

    In the 1940s Imperial Japan had to build a navy to attack the US. Today all you need are some choice missile systems and the element of surprise. Love it or hate it, we are at war 24/7 365 days a year with someone. No vacations, and no sick time.
    We didn't mind our own business. We arranged an oil embargo on Japan after they occupied Indochina.

    Edit: ninja'd!
    Last edited by Zincwarrior; 10-13-2019 at 08:06 AM.

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephanie B View Post
    The French helped us during the Revolution even though we weren't there for them during the Hundred Years' War.
    I think the French helping us was a little deeper than they just wanted to help the fledging Colonialists - they had their own strategic reasons to poke England in the eye. We paid them back in WW1 and WW2 but they often forget they would be speaking German now except for us.

  5. #125
    banana republican blues's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ranger View Post
    I think the French helping us was a little deeper than they just wanted to help the fledging Colonialists - they had their own strategic reasons to poke England in the eye. We paid them back in WW1 and WW2 but they often forget they would be speaking German now except for us.
    There's a difference between forgetting and intentionally failing to acknowledge.

    (I don't cast this net over the entire populace...I know for a fact that that's simply not the case.)
    There's nothing civil about this war.

    Read: Harrison Bergeron

  6. #126
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    but they often forget they would be speaking German now except for us.
    Probably, they would speaking Russian after WWII. There's good evidence that Stalin would have beat the Germans (the Russians did the majority of the land battle) and then rolled over France. Not that we didn't contribute to Nazi defeat.

    In WWI, by the time we entered both sides were exhausted and teetering on the edge of collapse. Our arriving forces helped convince the Germans to give it up. If we hadn't entered, probably would have had socialist revolution across all of Europe and maybe the UK.

    Before our entry though, it's true we supplied the Allies with material and funding that made their efforts possible. Our military contribution was more potential than actual. Not that brave Americans didn't fight at the end.

    I was surprised at the amount of German collaboration in the USA during WWI by some. It far exceeded anything we see now from Muslim populations in the USA.
    Last edited by Glenn E. Meyer; 10-13-2019 at 11:06 AM.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by ranger View Post
    I think the French helping us was a little deeper than they just wanted to help the fledging Colonialists - they had their own strategic reasons to poke England in the eye. We paid them back in WW1 and WW2 but they often forget they would be speaking German now except for us.
    I think the Americans helping the French in the world wars was motivated by something a little deeper than wanting to help France - the Americans had their own strategic reasons for poking Germany in the eye. The Americans owed the French after the Revolutionary War, but the Americans often forget they would be subjects now except for France.

  8. #128
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    https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order...-couldnt-last/

    Fairly balanced take from Brookings.

    tl;dr The messaging was poor, and the implementation was sloppy, but the events unfolding currently are wholly unsurprising.

    My .02: The pearl clutching has largely been disingenuous and politically motivated, or genuine, but by those who don't have a firm grasp of the reality on the ground.

  9. #129
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    The concept of 'owed' is interesting. Most countries act in their self interest. A monarchy in France acted for the Colonies as it suited them. I wonder if the King thought that the American Revolution would be an inspiration to his countryfolk when it all came to a head in France.

    Pure altruism - does it exist? A German Europe - wouldn't serve our interests. Neither did a Japanese empire in Asia. Supporting the Colonies added France against England, the same. We fought a shadow war against France just a little later. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quasi-War .

  10. #130
    banana republican blues's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Français View Post
    I think the Americans helping the French in the world wars was motivated by something a little deeper than wanting to help France - the Americans had their own strategic reasons for poking Germany in the eye. The Americans owed the French after the Revolutionary War, but the Americans often forget they would be subjects now except for France.

    Touché! Well played, mon ami.
    There's nothing civil about this war.

    Read: Harrison Bergeron

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