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Thread: 84% of Women Failing Army Combat Fitness Test

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by LittleLebowski View Post
    When I went to Jump as a Marine Sergeant, an Army bubba explained what MARINE means: Muscles Are Required Intelligence Not Expected
    I barely missed attending Jump School with Sean M!
    #RESIST

  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by LittleLebowski View Post
    I barely missed attending Jump School with Sean M!
    That would have been an exciting time for sure. I can't imagine what he was like "back in the day" having really only interacted with him late in his career.

  3. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by LittleLebowski View Post
    When I went to Jump as a Marine Sergeant, an Army bubba explained what MARINE means: Muscles Are Required Intelligence Not Expected
    We must've had the same Black Hat they loved saying that to you guys.

    Quote Originally Posted by jetfire View Post
    See? Sensitive. Imagine thinking that my interservice ribbing was anything other than that.

    Would it help if I drew the joke for you? Or used smaller words?
    Yes, we like pictures just don't let the Marines near your crayons. Small words, YES please! Oh, who am I kidding you're in the Air Force don't you have someone who can animate that shit for me? Just for the love of God absolutely NO PP!
    Last edited by Mike C; 10-07-2019 at 10:49 PM.

  4. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike C View Post
    We must've had the same Black Hat they loved saying that to you guys.



    Yes, we like pictures just don't let the Marines near your crayons. Small words, YES please! Oh, who am I kidding you're in the Air Force don't you have someone who can animate that shit for me? Just for the love of God absolutely NO PP!
    Hell, pretty much all of us can. We have a three week block in basic training on animated gifs to spice up our power points.

  5. #35
    Site Supporter 0ddl0t's Avatar
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    Trivia: The make-up of questions on modern IQ tests is designed so that men and women both average 100. That didn't happen by accident, it took many iterations to get the balance of spatial & verbal questions just right (and it continues to be tweaked: both sexes are testing better over time, but women are getting better in spatial questions faster than men are getting better with verbal questions).

    Quote Originally Posted by DG12 View Post
    There are times when a soldier needs to get over a wall that is taller than they are. This requires the soldier to jump a little and pull themselves over. If the soldier is too weak to, essentially, do a pull up in full kit then they need to bring their knees up to help push up wall with their feet.

    Very real life.
    Then have them climb over a wall in full battle rattle. If they can't do that, they fail for roles reasonably expected to climb over walls. But maybe they can do it by swinging their leg to the side and riding the momentum or some other adaptation suited to their body mechanics.

    Having them do a specific exercise in a specific manner - divorced from reality - that disproportionately fails one sex is not only wrong, it is also stupid (for unnecessarily limiting the applicant pool). For what it's worth, the private sector is just as idiotic in throwing up dumb screening criteria.

    Quote Originally Posted by TAZ View Post
    I don’t have issues with women serving in any role they are competent in.
    Me either. If a specific duty has real-world requirements that disproportionately affect one sex, I'm also fine with that sex being under represented in those roles. But for service-wide standards? That's just dumb.
    Last edited by 0ddl0t; 10-07-2019 at 11:09 PM.

  6. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by 0ddl0t View Post
    Trivia: The make-up of questions on modern IQ tests is designed so that men and women both average 100. That didn't happen by accident, it took many iterations to get the balance of spatial & verbal questions just right (and it continues to be tweaked: both sexes are testing better over time, but women are getting better in spatial questions faster than men are getting better with verbal questions).


    Then have them climb over a wall in full battle rattle. If they can't do that, they fail for roles reasonably expected to climb over walls. But maybe they can do it by swinging their leg to the side and riding the momentum or some other adaptation suited to their body mechanics.

    Having them do a specific exercise in a specific manner - divorced from reality - that disproportionately fails one sex is not only wrong, it is also stupid (for unnecessarily limiting the applicant pool). For what it's worth, the private sector is just as idiotic in throwing up dumb screening criteria.


    Me either. If a specific duty has real-world requirements that disproportionately affect one sex, I'm also fine with that sex being under represented in those roles. But for service-wide standards? That's just dumb.
    emphasis above is mine...

    So I guess the main thing, when you have to knock on that door in Class A uniform to notify the next of kin, is to tell them the PT tests were fair.
    Last edited by David C.; 10-07-2019 at 11:18 PM.
    Wolves don't kill the unlucky deer.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by 0ddl0t View Post
    Trivia: The make-up of questions on modern IQ tests is designed so that men and women both average 100. That didn't happen by accident, it took many iterations to get the balance of spatial & verbal questions just right (and it continues to be tweaked: both sexes are testing better over time, but women are getting better in spatial questions faster than men are getting better with verbal questions).


    Then have them climb over a wall in full battle rattle. If they can't do that, they fail for roles reasonably expected to climb over walls. But maybe they can do it by swinging their leg to the side and riding the momentum or some other adaptation suited to their body mechanics.

    Having them do a specific exercise in a specific manner - divorced from reality - that disproportionately fails one sex is not only wrong, it is also stupid (for unnecessarily limiting the applicant pool). For what it's worth, the private sector is just as idiotic in throwing up dumb screening criteria.
    Hey dude, I don’t know what to tell you. I gave you the real life scenario where that movement may be applied. Now you’re talking about performing the test in full kit (full combat load, radio, rifle, pistol, etc.). You think the fail rate for babes is high now, lol.

    Here’s a thought. There is no physical military test, for combat arms, where women will out perform men.
    Last edited by DG12; 10-07-2019 at 11:50 PM.

  8. #38
    Site Supporter 0ddl0t's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David C. View Post
    emphasis above is mine...

    So I guess the main thing, when you have to knock on that door in Class A uniform to notify the next of kin, is to tell them the PT tests were fair.
    Cuz having a clerk unable to lift her knee to her elbow while dangling from a bar will get you kilt in da sandbox...

    But seriously, look at the IDF. They do a much better job utilizing their available labor force. And yes, they exclude women from many roles...

    Quote Originally Posted by DG12 View Post
    Hey dude, I don’t know what to tell you. I gave you the real life scenario where that movement may be applied. Now you’re talking about performing the test in full kit (full combat load, radio, rifle, pistol, etc.). You think the fail rate for babes is high now, lol.
    Hey, if it is necessary for the job so be it. But there are lots of roles in which the average woman can do the job just fine.

    Here’s a thought. There is no physical military test, for combat arms, where women will out perform men.
    Which says a lot about those designing the tests. It would be trivial task to make a physical test biased in favor of women (e.g. timed crawl through ultra confined space, a routine demanding more balance & flexibility than the average man possesses, etc).


    Quote Originally Posted by David C. View Post
    What happens if we fight a peer or near peer? Ever hear of Chosin Reservoir?
    Sure, I hear there was lots of rope climbing there...
    Last edited by 0ddl0t; 10-07-2019 at 11:58 PM.

  9. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by 0ddl0t View Post
    Cuz having a clerk unable to lift her knee to her elbow while dangling from a bar will get you kilt in da sandbox...
    What happens if we fight a peer or near peer? Ever hear of Chosin Reservoir?

    Maybe we should just forget physical fitness and bake brownies instead, right?
    Last edited by David C.; 10-07-2019 at 11:47 PM.
    Wolves don't kill the unlucky deer.

  10. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by jetfire View Post
    Also, if you think that's snarky you should hear my joke about the Marines. "Hey Caleb, if you're so tough why didn't you join the Marines?"

    Well I knew both my parents so...
    See, it's a good thing I held off on ignoring this thread so I could correct Caleb: Knowing both your parents is why you didn't become an offic... Oh, wait.
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