Armed Security at Churches Is Becoming a New Normal

[blues]

I go to a large church (but not a “megachurch”), and was over our security team for several years. Like a lot of volunteer ministries, it could be a real headache sometimes.

I still help out with training— we recently had a range day, and I brought a couple other police FI’s with me from my former agency. It was difficult because of the wide gap in skill. Some guys can run a gun extremely well, and others probably shouldn’t be handling firearms, period. I spent a lot of the time talking about mindset/software, and ended up offending a few people.

I’ve also brought in a defensive tactics instructor on multiple occasions, which everyone seemed to like.

My main concern has always been not knowing who all was armed in the congregation— I go to a southern baptist church, after all.

T,

Today's "Active Response Training" column by Greg Ellifritz may be of interest to you and others who could find themselves in active shooter situations.

https://www.activeresponsetraining.n...armed-citizens

Nothing particularly new, but worth a read and relevant.

[jetfire]

There are about 238,000,000 non-felon adults over the age of 21 in the US.

There are, at last count, 18,660,000 CCW permitholders.

40,000,000 people live in permitless concealed carry states.

I would assume most congregations are, whether they acknowledge it or not, pretty well populated with guns toted in aisle seats and near entry points by people that care deeply about the folks around them.

Inane state laws and church policies notwithstanding.

I doubt that very much, to be honest. One of the LEOs I follow on social has documented the number of times that someone with a CCW permit has actually had their gun on them during a traffic stop. I think he's had 1, total.

Merely registering for an account on a place like PF puts you a car's length ahead of most concealed carry permit holders in terms of how serious you are about this. I couldn't put a % on it, but I'm comfortable saying that the majority of people who have carry permits rarely, if ever, carry their guns.

[TC215]

T,

Today's "Active Response Training" column by Greg Ellifritz may be of interest to you and others who could find themselves in active shooter situations.

https://www.activeresponsetraining.n...armed-citizens

Nothing particularly new, but worth a read and relevant.

Thanks, I just sent that out to everyone.

[blues]

Thanks, I just sent that out to everyone.

Glad to help, brother.

[JRV]

I doubt that very much, to be honest. One of the LEOs I follow on social has documented the number of times that someone with a CCW permit has actually had their gun on them during a traffic stop. I think he's had 1, total.

Merely registering for an account on a place like PF puts you a car's length ahead of most concealed carry permit holders in terms of how serious you are about this. I couldn't put a % on it, but I'm comfortable saying that the majority of people who have carry permits rarely, if ever, carry their guns.

It sucks, but it's also regional. I was a LEO in the South, and over half of everyone I met that was licensed was carrying. Even more were unlicensed car carriers.

I contrast that with my parents who have permits, but rarely carry. When they do, it's off-body. My sister has yet to see a civilian CCW in the wild in her part of FL.

Statistically, it's not all doom and gloom. Let's say there is about 1/3 overlap between licensed and permitless legal carriers (states like Alabama, North Carolina, South Caroluna, Georgia, and Florida have high populations of license holders but do have permit requirements). Take out another million permits because some people collect non-resident permits.

That's about 50,000,000 people with legal authority to carry... plus or minus active and retired LEOs, which may or may not have state CCWs.

Say a third of those people carry (a) everyday or (b) only for specific purposes (going to banks, bad parts of town, going to church). Or, a quarter.

That's still 3 to 7% of adults.

You're definitely right, though. Carrying is going to be concentrated heavily in certain regions. In the rural Southeast, you probably wouldn't want to start something at a SBC congregation. Go to a city, and it could go either way. Go to temple in Newton, MA, and you're going to almost certainly be in a big crowd of unarmed folks.

[Darth_Uno]

I would assume most congregations are, whether they acknowledge it or not, pretty well populated with guns toted in aisle seats and near entry points by people that care deeply about the folks around them.

Inane state laws and church policies notwithstanding.

In my experience, which in this area is pretty substantial, the religious right is a very real thing. I wouldn't say most 'gun people' are particularly religious - but I'd say most "religious" people are pro-gun. I don't mean they carry or care to, but they're ok with it if you want to.

[Paul Blackburn]

Many folks that resist implementing security are not willing to admit or accept that that's where we are as a society. As if denial makes their delusion reality. Of course I've never understood this.

[jetfire]

Many folks that resist implementing security are not willing to admit or accept that that's where we are as a society. As if denial makes their delusion reality. Of course I've never understood this.

My resistance to church security has nothing to do with not accepting how society is and everything to do with not wanting the sort of people who'd volunteer to be church security anywhere near me with guns.

[blues]

My resistance to church security has nothing to do with not accepting how society is and everything to do with not wanting the sort of people who'd volunteer to be church security anywhere near me with guns.

That might be true oftentimes or most of the time, I dunno, I'm not a churchgoer. But when guys like TC215 are involved in church security, that speaks volumes about the quality of at least some of the people involved...cavalier remarks notwithstanding.

[jetfire]

That might be true oftentimes or most of the time, I dunno, I'm not a churchgoer. But when guys like TC215 are involved in church security, that speaks volumes about the quality of at least some of the people involved...cavalier remarks notwithstanding.

For sure there are good dudes who want to take part in that, I'm not trying to impugn anyone here (in this thread, anyway). If I was actually being clear, my experience with the kind of people who want to form church security teams and volunteer for that sort of thing is that they're the sort of people whose ambition outstrips their skill by several orders of magnitude. The ones I've dealt with just want to feel like they have some official capacity to carry their gun, like it's a batman badge instead of a social responsibility.