Armed Security at Churches Is Becoming a New Normal

[blues]

For sure there are good dudes who want to take part in that, I'm not trying to impugn anyone here (in this thread, anyway). If I was actually being clear, my experience with the kind of people who want to form church security teams and volunteer for that sort of thing is that they're the sort of people whose ambition outstrips their skill by several orders of magnitude. The ones I've dealt with just want to feel like they have some official capacity to carry their gun, like it's a batman badge instead of a social responsibility.

I hear that. That seems to be a universal thing. I can remember some of the folks that tried out for our SRT back in the day. Most were well qualified, whether they made the team or not...some,not so much, in virtually any way and you had to wonder what they were thinking.

[PNWTO]

I wouldn't mind being part of such a group... but I'm Catholic, so that shit is basically a no-go unless there is some covert coordination done that excludes the staff of the Diocese.

Which means it is definitely a no-go.

[TC215]

For sure there are good dudes who want to take part in that, I'm not trying to impugn anyone here (in this thread, anyway). If I was actually being clear, my experience with the kind of people who want to form church security teams and volunteer for that sort of thing is that they're the sort of people whose ambition outstrips their skill by several orders of magnitude. The ones I've dealt with just want to feel like they have some official capacity to carry their gun, like it's a batman badge instead of a social responsibility.

There is some of that, of course. A lot of our guys, though, are current/retired LE or prior military.

As far as the “kind of people who want to form church security teams”— In my experience, that has come primarily from church leadership. Over the last few years, we had numerous churches come to my old police department wanting advice/security assessments, and those would normally get tasked to a SWAT officer, so I ended up doing a good bit of that.

[jetfire]

There is some of that, of course. A lot of our guys, though, are current/retired LE or prior military.

As far as the “kind of people who want to form church security teams”— In my experience, that has come primarily from church leadership. Over the last few years, we had numerous churches come to my old police department wanting advice/security assessments, and those would normally get tasked to a SWAT officer, so I ended up doing a good bit of that.

That's cool, I'm glad to see that people are into it for the right reasons. Oh and to the Catholic dude upthread, it's not entirely impossible, when I was in St...something or other, the big church right in the middle of Manhattan on 5th? They 100% had discreetly armed guards.

[HCM]

Common here. Local range holds regular church security sessions.
There were some nervous moments when several churches were scoped out by foreign students. Told to leave their backpacks outside.

Yeah, about that...

When you are considering threats to your church keep in mind the old maxim “when you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras.”

I’ve investigated several reports of suspicious activity by “Arabic speaking men” at churches which have proven unfounded. In all but one case the subjects were identified and were not middle eastern, Arabic speakers etc.

I’m not aware of any U.S. Church shooting involving foreigners or members / affiliates of an international terrorist organization.

Most church shootings, including Sutherland Springs, resolve to domestic violence or some type of personal retaliation.

[andre3k]

Slightly off topic, but I've worked large and small churches in an off-duty capacity. They tend to be lower paying jobs. I was cool with that until I worked a church where the pastor wanted to establish a fund to replace the blades on the "church" helicopter. I raised my rates to meet the market after witnessing that. That same mega church conned some officers that were members there into joining the security ministry, which meant working for free.

I can see smaller churches organizing unpaid security, but I'm not working for free when pastor and first lady have matching Rolls Royces.

[Inspector71]

I wouldn't mind being part of such a group... but I'm Catholic, so that shit is basically a no-go unless there is some covert coordination done that excludes the staff of the Diocese.

Which means it is definitely a no-go.

You would think that. But, I reside in SC and the Catholic Bishop here has signed off on at least one parish to form an in-house security team(armed) in 2016. I was recruited from the congregation to be their firearms trainer, but a few months later moved to a different city. Last I visited, their team was still up and operational. In my new parish, they opted to hire an off-duty deputy for security at Mass. As was said above, the acceptance of guns in the pews is often a regional/cultural thing. Even the Pope has the discreetly armed Swiss Guard to protect him.

[Joe in PNG]

Slightly off topic, but I've worked large and small churches in an off-duty capacity. They tend to be lower paying jobs. I was cool with that until I worked a church where the pastor wanted to establish a fund to replace the blades on the "church" helicopter. I raised my rates to meet the market after witnessing that. That same mega church conned some officers that were members there into joining the security ministry, which meant working for free.

I can see smaller churches organizing unpaid security, but I'm not working for free when pastor and first lady have matching Rolls Royces.

That's usually a major red flag about the quality of "church" you have there.

[JAD]

I wouldn't mind being part of such a group... but I'm Catholic, so that shit is basically a no-go unless there is some covert coordination done that excludes the staff of the Diocese.

Which means it is definitely a no-go.

That’s very regional. There is no USCCB policy, and all the Church has to say on the subject is at http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_cs...m/p3s2c2a5.htm. My reading of that does not make me enthusiastic for amateur security teams, because authority is a component. Clearly I have authority over my person and my family, and I carry a firearm as part of the responsibility that goes with that authority. If there’s a parish security team, that’s an extension of the authority of the parish priest. I’m not sure we’re well structured for that, or that it really is in line with teaching.

[revchuck38]

I wouldn't mind being part of such a group... but I'm Catholic, so that shit is basically a no-go unless there is some covert coordination done that excludes the staff of the Diocese.

Which means it is definitely a no-go.

That’s very regional. There is no USCCB policy, and all the Church has to say on the subject is at http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_cs...m/p3s2c2a5.htm. My reading of that does not make me enthusiastic for amateur security teams, because authority is a component. Clearly I have authority over my person and my family, and I carry a firearm as part of the responsibility that goes with that authority. If there’s a parish security team, that’s an extension of the authority of the parish priest. I’m not sure we’re well structured for that, or that it really is in line with teaching.

I'm Catholic, and my parish has a security team including some LEOs who attend Mass in "business casual" uniform - department polo shirt and slacks with badge and Glock on their belt. Our pastor has asked parishioners to not carry at Mass, giving the reason that in an active shooter event the security team may not be able to tell good folks from the bad. Additionally, carrying in church is specifically prohibited by state law unless permitted by church authorities.