SD 10/22s

[Drang]

Man, 3 pages into a discussion of a 10/22 for self-defense, complete with pics of a suppressed version, and mention of wheelbarrows and de-barked chihuahuas? I don't know whether this is a sign of the superiority of P-F.co over all those other internet gun fora, or a gross violation of internet gun forum norms.

FWIW and back on topic: Here in WA a 10/22 is an evil assault weapon. The only reason I can see for endorsing a 10/22 for self-defense here is that HH6 finds it marginally easier to manage a 10/22 than an AR. But she feels the same about her Keltec Sub2000. And her 20 gauge Coach Gun.

[BehindBlueI's]

Ahh here we go. I’ll let you argue with Chuck if he’s so inclined to do so. That’s a nice touch using a select Fire European sub gun as your counter point for an argument as to why private citizens should use a PCC.

I don't doubt his experience, but I know mine pretty well. All long gun injuries aren't fatal.

Note the 5.7 didn't get much traction vs the 9mm options either. Why? If rimfires are "just as lethal" you'd think that wouldn't have been the case as the 5.7 is a really souped up version. Yet it was, and the reason was it was a very slow stopper even when eventually fatal. It's just not enough damage to overcome the body's abilities to fight injured. Poo poo it all you like, that's the facts. Even heart shots with a .22 are survivable. Feel free to Google survival rates if you don't believe me.

I've repeatedly said it'll most likely work for home defense. Caliber and cartridge won't matter the majority of the time because they tend to not stick around once the shooting starts. But that time it does, I'd rock a Hi-point carbine before a 10/22.

[Wheeler]

But BBI is spot on regardless of anecdotal experiences (no matter who shares them). And you don’t need a giggle switch on a PCC in 9/40/45/10. There’s no way I’d ever reach for a .22 anything over a PCC in a modern service caliber. The ballistic science doesn’t lie. Statistics however can.

No one here is trying to convince you to do anything if the sort. That doesn’t make it any less viable an option for a lot of folks. Speaking of statistics, I’m guessing you have access to statistics of .22s out of rifles versus PCCs?

[BehindBlueI's]

No one here is trying to convince you to do anything if the sort.

Then what's the point behind:

It's every bit as lethal as a PCC, maybe even more so given the velocity and penetrations boosts the better quality ammo gets versus a 9mm out of a carbine length barrel.

That's what I've taken umbrage with. If you're going to claim a .22 rimfire is more betterer, show your work.

[Wheeler]

Then what's the point behind:



That's what I've taken umbrage with. If you're going to claim a .22 rimfire is more betterer, show your work.

I’m claiming it’s good enough. I hate that you decided to take umbrage. Every time this subject comes up folks start tossing out anecdotes and so forth. You don’t have to make this choice. Many folks do and are satisfied with their results. Then again, not everyone is a cop doing cop stuff or cosplays as a Dangerous Dude on the training circuit.

So if you want data and research show me yours disproving it or quit asking for something you know isn’t readily available and we can go back to tossing anecdotes around.

[Lost River]

https://www.growingupguns.com/2014/0...ke-a-decision/

Interesting article as I have one that I set up the same way. I shot it at matches. My downside is that the reload is one of those wiggles you have to practice. It is a fun gun and I can see it for less sturdy folks.

I would not feel unarmed or defenseless if all I had was a 10-22. Or, truth be told, my roughly 50 year old Marlin Mountie 20" lever action .22. I figure if I can hit running jackrabbits in the sagebrush, well thats fast and accurate enough for me.

Leave the 2x7 scope on 2x and rock on.



I actually have a 10-22 that I put a match grade, fluted barrel, a fancy walnut stock, and a decent rimfire scope on, that I rarely ever shoot. I simply like my old Marlin M39 Mountie so much. The action cycles like it is an afterthought. and it is a very accurate rifle as well. I cannot begin to guess the number of Jacks that have met their demise due to this classic wood and steel piece of American craftsmanship (that also could be used to defend yourself).

[Ed L]

I’m claiming it’s good enough. I hate that you decided to take umbrage. Every time this subject comes up folks start tossing out anecdotes and so forth. You don’t have to make this choice. Many folks do and are satisfied with their results. Then again, not everyone is a cop doing cop stuff or cosplays as a Dangerous Dude on the training circuit.

So if you want data and research show me yours disproving it or quit asking for something you know isn’t readily available and we can go back to tossing anecdotes around.

You do realize that you are lecturing a police officer whose case files cover hundreds of people shot, right?

As to some specifics points you made.

Many folks do and are satisfied with their results.

It's easy to be satisfied if you never have to use the gun to defend yourself, know nothing about real life shootings and how hard it can be to stop a determined attacker, and having a .22 rifle makes you feel empowered and secure. You may even face a bumbling criminal who runs at the sight of a gun or at shots fired.

But there are plenty of cases where violent criminals had to be shot multiple times with weapons far more powerful than .22 rifles. So why would you want to use a .22 absent some financial, physical, or training limitation, as in the case of a spouse who you can't get to use anything else--so it is that or nothing?

A lot of bad guys are not impressed by the sight of your gun. They've had guns pointed at them before, maybe even been shot a few times. They have dealt with lots of people who are far more violent and intimidating than you. Look at the criminal on criminal violence that they inflict on one another. Do you really want to be facing someone like that with a .22?

Then again, not everyone is a cop doing cop stuff or cosplays as a Dangerous Dude on the training circuit.

So anyone who wants something more than a .22 rifle to defend themselves is doing cosplay? Your outlook does not reflect the majority of credible firearms instructors, nor people knowledgeable in terminal ballistics and the effects of firearms on a determined attacker.

[Ed L]

duplicate post

[BehindBlueI's]

I’m claiming it’s good enough.

Actually, no. You claimed it was equal and then even better. I'll quote you again, as you keep avoiding it:

It's every bit as lethal as a PCC, maybe even more so given the velocity and penetrations boosts the better quality ammo gets versus a 9mm out of a carbine length barrel.

If you seriously believe a .22 from a carbine is "even more so" in terms of lethality than a 9mm from a carbine, show your work. I'd be fascinated how a bullet that fails the FBI protocols, can't break major adult bones, etc. is even more lethal than a bullet such as the 147 gr HST fired from a carbine which does pass the FBI protocols? It's utter nonsense.

If you want to abandon that and walk it back to "good enough" fine, we're mostly in agreement. I've stated multiple times that it probably will be. For a random home invasion, it's quite likely to rule the day *if* they don't let them get it taken from them and fire it if they need to. Anything that makes gunshot noises is more likely than not to win.

Against a dedicated attacker, say an ex-husband who's high on meth and doesn't care if he dies as well...then maybe not. I've explained why several times already.

You do realize that you are lecturing a police officer whose case files cover hundreds of people shot, right?

Thanks. For the record, I spent 6 years in an office that got about 100-130 murders and about 4-5 that in non-fatal shootings each year. I've worked hundreds of non-fatals, easily, just as the lead detective. Probably in the four digits if you count cases I was assisting on or was reporting on as a uniformed officer. I recently did a month in Homicide as a temporary detail and in that time my shift alone had a double murder (infant and adult), a multiple victim shooting with one fatally wounded, and a single victim murder. Given the vast numbers of people shot I've been exposed to, I've definitely noted some trends. Based on that I would not arm my spouse with a .22.

[Dan_S]

Given the vast numbers of people shot I've been exposed to, I've definitely noted some trends. Based on that I would not arm my spouse with a .22.

So, what would you choose for someone that’s not able (for whatever reason) to effectively utilize a full powered rifle/handgun?

While I agree it isn’t ideal, a .22 is a whole lot better than nothing, and my interest in this subject is due to a very specific situation regarding a loved one and what best to have set up with a light and optic for home defense.