SD 10/22s

[BehindBlueI's]

So, what would you choose for someone that’s not able (for whatever reason) to effectively utilize a full powered rifle/handgun?

Pistol caliber carbine, especially if there's a specific and credible threat. And don't over complicate it. Realistically assess their ability to use a light and if they'll maintain an optic. For in the house and for a low skilled user who's unlikely to train, a laser may be a better answer as it's quite intuitive. If the person has compromised vision as well, consider what they can best see under a variety of lighting conditions.

If the individual has no credible threat, doesn't have drug fueled violence issues in the neighborhood, etc. then whatever goes bang will most likely work. Most random home invasions begin as burglaries where the suspect didn't realize someone was home. A layered security system is the first step to preventing that. A gun is another layer, but has little preventative value compared to a visibly posted alarm, cameras, indications someone is home, answering but not opening the door to strangers, etc.

[Wheeler]

You do realize that you are lecturing a police officer whose case files cover hundreds of people shot, right?

As to some specifics points you made.



It's easy to be satisfied if you never have to use the gun to defend yourself, know nothing about real life shootings and how hard it can be to stop a determined attacker, and having a .22 rifle makes you feel empowered and secure. You may even face a bumbling criminal who runs at the sight of a gun or at shots fired.

But there are plenty of cases where violent criminals had to be shot multiple times with weapons far more powerful than .22 rifles. So why would you want to use a .22 absent some financial, physical, or training limitation, as in the case of a spouse who you can't get to use anything else--so it is that or nothing?

A lot of bad guys are not impressed by the sight of your gun. They've had guns pointed at them before, maybe even been shot a few times. They have dealt with lots of people who are far more violent and intimidating than you. Look at the criminal on criminal violence that they inflict on one another. Do you really want to be facing someone like that with a .22?



So anyone who wants something more than a .22 rifle to defend themselves is doing cosplay? Your outlook does not reflect the majority of credible firearms instructors, nor people knowledgeable in terminal ballistics and the effects of firearms on a determined attacker.

I'll tell you the same thing I told the police officer whose case files cover hundreds of people shot, take it up with that other police officer, Chuck Haggard. You could also look up all those folks who have used 22s to defend themselves but I have a feeling that information would erode the specific appeal to authority you're going for. I think it's rather funny that you think because I'm not a cop I've never pointed or had a gun pointed at me before. Again that set of erodes the appeal to authority that you're going for.

My outlook reflects that of Chuck Haggard and Claude Werner. I'm sure you feel they are wrong and you have my invitation to go tell them in person. I mean I get that it's easier to pontificate on the internet rather than confront them but you keep doing you.

[El Cid]

So, what would you choose for someone that’s not able (for whatever reason) to effectively utilize a full powered rifle/handgun?

While I agree it isn’t ideal, a .22 is a whole lot better than nothing, and my interest in this subject is due to a very specific situation regarding a loved one and what best to have set up with a light and optic for home defense.

Agree with BBI. I would probably start with a Beretta CX4 Storm in 9mm. Affordable, uses common pistol mags, uncomplicated manual of arms, and loads in the pistol grip allowing the home defender to lay it across furniture if need be. I’ve seen good reviews of Ruger’s 9mm PCC but I prefer Beretta to Ruger for just about everything.

http://www.beretta.com/en-us/cx4-storm/

[Dan_S]

@El Cid

Whats the length of pull on the Cx4?

I’d like to keep it to 12.5 at most.

[El Cid]

@El Cid

Whats the length of pull on the Cx4?

I’d like to keep it to 12.5 at most.

I don’t own one. Their website says it’s adjustable but not within what range. Looks like it uses spacers from a shotgun stock.

[BehindBlueI's]

@El Cid

Whats the length of pull on the Cx4?

I’d like to keep it to 12.5 at most.

It's adjustable, but 13.3" is the length with no spacers.

The Ruger PC9 is 12.6" with no spacers. If they release a non-takedown version I'll likely pick one up. Or two.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Did I say this - just for the record, my go to long arm is either a Ruger Mini-14, Ruger 9mm carbine or Winchester Defender 1300. That is to be worked out when we settle in in the ban state (sigh). The 10/22 article interested me had I had a similar set up for fun and 22 allowing matches. I suppose that if I had physical problems or a loved one who only could handle a lighter weapon - I would consider the 10/22.

LostRiver's post and picture reminded me of this, which I have mentioned before. I was riding in a jeep with three friends outside of Rock Springs, TX on a 'ranch' owned by a friend. We saw a jack rabbit and the driver/ranch owner said that it should be taken. The other friend had a 22 LR long rifle and shot at it. This annoyed the bunny who charged at the Jeep, ignoring a fusillade of 22s. It must have been one of those alien attack rabbits that went after Pres. Carter. Anyway, it was closing. I said: Oh for God's sake. I pulled my G27 which I was carrying on the ride and dispatched the bunny.

This obviously ends the debate as one stopping power anecdote is conclusive.

[Super77]

Cost is a huge factor for a lot of folks. Most people don't do the "I'm A Dangerous Person" cosplay and prefer to spend their time and money on other things they find more important in their lives. With the actual lethality of a 22 rifle stoked with good ammo kept in mind it actually makes good sense. When you got people that have a lot of background in the training industry like Claude Werner and Chuck Haggard recommending a 22 rifle for home defense then the concept doesn't seem quite so far fetched.

I can send a lot of hate with my 10/22. It's accurate and reliable when I use good ammo. It's every bit as lethal as a PCC, maybe even more so given the velocity and penetrations boosts the better quality ammo gets versus a 9mm out of a carbine length barrel.

This has to be one of the greatest troll posts I’ve seen on p-f. I’m impressed that you managed to fit an epic fail into almost every sentence. Thanks for the laugh.

[Dan_S]

@Lost River

How is the Leupold 2x7 in low light?

Would you feel it would work ok at night in conjunction with a light?

[David S.]

@Lost River

How is the Leupold 2x7 in low light?

Would you feel it would work ok at night in conjunction with a light?

A Primary Arms advanced micro, or Holosun 407c/507c would probably be better for in home defense assuming the shooter can properly see the red dot. Both are inexpensive and should only require battery changes on an annual (or less) basis. (The 407c is on clearance at Optics planet for under $200 shipped.)