Index Point on Draw Stroke

[JRV]

I've spent the last four months carrying a 642-2 as my "always" gun, which, due to being in a professional environment, means I invariably end up with a J-frame on me far more often than my Commander or my Glock 19. For context, I have carried medium-framed semi-autos consistently, for or outside of work, for ten years.

This question does not apply to pocket carry, since I normally walk around with my hands in my pockets. Establishing a grip in that context is a non-issue.

However, when I compete with my J-frame or opt to carry in a kydex AIWB rig, I am consistently running into an issue that I have had zero luck remediation through dry-fire.

With pistols, I index my primary grip by beavertail/hand web contact and maintaining a high thumb position. I bury my hand as high as it can go before closing my grip. A lot of this comes from using an ALS holster at work when I was younger.

With a revolver, I don't have that contact point, so it's really screwing with my ability to establish a master grip, even with slow, deliberate dry-fire draws. There's no beavertail. At speed, I sporadically jam the web of my hand over the hump on the rear of the frame where a beavertail would be.

Has anyone else experienced this issue? If so, how did you overcome it?

[41magfan]

Before the hands above waist start position was a thing, my draw-stroke could almost be described as a "scooping" motion in some sense. Since the start position of the hand was often below the gun, my grip index was my middle finger (on the back of the trigger guard) as much as it was the web of my hand on the back-strap .... hopefully that makes sense. I've also found that some grip shapes mitigate what little "hump" there is on small-framed revolvers.

Anyhow, I offer that simply as personal commentary and not necessarily a fix for anything.

[JRV]

I started avoiding a scoop draw when I was issued an SLS/ALS holster back in 2011, and I haven't given it a second thought since.

I haven't had to use a duty holster for years since leaving LE. I should give scooping another go unless there are compelling reasons not to.

[jtcarm]

I index the web of my hand to the top of the grip, so that the web is stretched over the top.

The exact opposite of your autoloader technique.

[Rex G]

Whether or not one may wish to label it as “scooping,” I tend to draw everything by indexing on the part of the weapon that rests against/on my middle finger, because it was the “natural” thing to do when I learned to refine my draw with revolving pistols, in the Eighties, with thumb-break and totally-open-top personal-time holsters, and the flap-style duty holsters.

If I am conscious of carrying an auto, at the outset of the draw, in a suitable holster, I may well index on the tang/back-strap, but my default, reflexive draw has long been driven by the retention devices of my duty rigs, from late 1983, until I retired in early 2018. In retirement, I am tending to really like revolvers, without protruding tangs, upon which to index.

Long read; beware of boredom:

Indexing between the grip and trigger guard, and “scooping,” worked well with break-front duty holsters, first issued in 1985.

After the break-fronts, the Safariland SS III, a.k.a. 070, made indexing impossible, at least for my hand, until one had positioned one’s fingers and thumbs just-so, with one’s hand in a ridiculous chicken-wing orientation, to release the weapon, so, I continued to “scoop,” as a proper index on the back-strap/tang was made problematic, at least for me, by the radical chicken-wing. (A drop-shank option was available, to mitigate the chicken-winging, but with my skinny butt, I would have been unable to sit, if using a drop-shank.)

Finally, the Safariland 6360, with its ALS + SLS, allowed me to properly index on an auto’s tang/back-strap, if I broke the rules, and left the hood rotated downward, out of my way. (I can never remember whether the hood is the ALS or the SLS.)

If I am conscious of drawing an auto, with a holster that allows me to do so, I will index on the tang area of the weapon.

[JRV]

The hood is the SLS. And, your not cool unless you're walking around with the SLS hood flipped down.

[JRV]

Before the hands above waist start position was a thing, my draw-stroke could almost be described as a "scooping" motion in some sense. Since the start position of the hand was often below the gun, my grip index was my middle finger (on the back of the trigger guard) as much as it was the web of my hand on the back-strap .... hopefully that makes sense. I've also found that some grip shapes mitigate what little "hump" there is on small-framed revolvers.

Anyhow, I offer that simply as personal commentary and not necessarily a fix for anything.

I managed to get some video of the scoop (more accurately, a choppy .gif). It works, but I definitely need a lot more dryfire to get the speed up. I'm killing at least three tenths of a second here just feeling around for that middle finger index. Thanks again for the suggestion!

[jetfire]

Scott Jedlinksi teaches a method of drawing that address this and is easily adapted to revolvers. I forget his exact terminology, but basically it's the claw. When you go to establish your grip on the gun in the holster, you don't place your thumb around the grip until the weapon clears the holster. Instead, you keep your thumb high and (with a wheelgun) the tip of my thumb makes contact either with the hammer spur (on my LCRx) or the rear sight on a gun with no hammer. This also leaves room for my support hand to establish itself on the gun as it moves towards the target, and while I'm doing that my thumb closes the gap down over my support hand.