Well, I went and saw this last night, partly because of the controversy over going and seeing it.
Granted, I saw it in a nice part of a mid-sized town in Canada, in a theatre with assigned seating and electric recliner chairs, so about as non-violent an environment as you're going to get.
Anyway, I really enjoyed it. I saw a trailer for it somewhere almost a year ago, and I just wanted to see it. I haven't gone to a movie theatre in at least three or four years but I wanted to put money in for this - a vote for its existence, say.
My wife was absolutely riveted by it. I could give you some quibbles and I think it should have had another thirty minutes to flesh out other characters but overall I was really happy I'd gone to see it. Of course, as someone from TPI who knows me quite well, I'm probably what you'd call "chaotic neutral" and in general I enjoy disorder, and this movie is full of it so it's like cheesecake for my brain. But I'll tell you why I liked it and I'm going to throw a possible? spoiler warning out here: um...possible spoilers ahead. I haven't written it yet so I don't know what I'm going to say.
Spoiler (highlight to read):
One thing that always annoys me with superhero movies is the enormous number of henchmen who dress up in costume to support their villain. This never works for me, psychologically speaking. Their loyalty to a guy who doesn't really seem to benefit them much, and their general desire to run around putting themselves at risk in exchange for theme clothing, just never makes sense to me. Criminal gangs fighting each other over turf I totally get. But it always seems silly that they are trying to overthrow cities and then run them according, often, to completely crazy, schizophrenic rules driven purely by the desire to emulate their crazy boss. I just have a hard time seeing it.
But what I liked about Joker was that it provided a sort of explanation for the henchmen. They work for me, if they're not part of a criminal enterprise exactly, but more of a social movement that was waiting for a spark. THAT I believe as a motivation for mass lawlessness and insurgence. So you get this guy who somehow stumbles into a moment where he ignites an angry crowd, and now he hasn't built this gigantic thing from the ground up, a feat which always seems impossible to me. It's more as though that mob was already there, just waiting for a moment, and now they're off. I guess I buy this because it's somewhat like the St Louis and Baltimore riots...you could never build a whole army of people and then direct them one day to begin your assault on law and order and have it take off. But there was the spontaneous violence of mobs which was harnessed and whetted and encouraged and prolonged by people who were organizers and wanted to exploit that drive to smash and overthrow that lurks inside a lot of people, particularly alienated young men.
So for me this was a really interesting watch. I had a really good time seeing it. I can actually relate a little more to the concerns some people had now, although I still don't agree. You're definitely bonding with the bad guy and a there's absolutely a demographic which will watch it and idolize the Joker. But I also think that they don't present him as anyone to idolize. I don't know. I guess I think it's a bit rich for some of the same people who don't want to be held responsible for glorifying violence in lots of movies, to be suddenly concerned that this bleak drama could cause mass shootings because it portrays a miserable, alienated guy suddenly vaulted upwards by his acts of violence. The thing is, when you go from a victim to an aggressor, that DOES increase your status. School bullies don't bully people because they're insecure, they do it because it increases their status and this has been shown a bunch of times. Objectively, this guy's shift from whipping boy to whip handler has a very real resonance because you genuinely are better off being a hammer than a nail.
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Anyway I guess this is all pretty unfocused; just my random thoughts about it the morning after seeing it. I think it's totally worth a watch.
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Originally Posted by misanthropist
