Anyone own either of these?
Pedersoli seems to have a good reputation, but I'm curious to hear anyone's experiences with accuracy, breakages, company support. Offhand things a "newbie" to them might not otherwise understand, like the barrel rate twist limiting it to certain rounds, etc.
"Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer
Fortunately the Black Powder Rifle Cartridge community is deep and zealous.
BPCR.net might offer some good browsing.
What do you want to do with it? For a historical piece, both are great. For actual BPCR shooting, guns with in line hammers like the Winchester High Wall or Ballard will give better results.
Pedersoli makes great stuff. I have a couple of BP pistols, and the build quality is great. However, you can definitely see the build quality differences if you step up to a Shiloh or similar level builder.
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Yes, what do you want to do with it?
Ive looked up the Pedersoli trapdoors, but its difficult ti imagine paying that much when you can get an original in good condition for less. I like the trapdoors quite a lot, I just saved some on GB to get an idea what they were going for, you can get decent to pretty good from $600-$900. If interested in the history of them, you can get an 1868 in 50-70 for in the same ballpark, which would be high on my list. This all assumes you want to shoot lead bullets. If jacketed, the old barrels probably arent at their best for extended jacketed use, but otherwise score off the charts for cool factor.
As far as i know, most 45-70s have been made with about 1-22 barrels which work for about anything, 300-500 gr.
A good friend that used to collect original buffalo sharps rifles recently mentioned he felt the Pedersoli Sharps were pretty good for the money. There also turn up original cartridge conversions of percussion sharps in carbine form in 50-70 cal, sometimes in the price range of the Pedersoli guns. Quite a few were done after the Civil War for use by the cavalry in the west.
If you ever see me post a topic about new carbine, its good money it would be a Winchester, Sharps or trapdoor, although my favorite Sharps format is the Business Rifle. Im always disapointed when i see the term carbine then realize its probably an AR.
Gads, just looked up a modern "business rifle", its not the same as the old ones. Most of the originals were 28" round medium heavy, military butt, and not fancy. They were the working guns, not the fancy target guns.
Last edited by Malamute; 09-24-2019 at 10:16 PM.
“Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat.”
― Theodore Roosevelt
Me? I shot BPCR with a Winchester Single Shot and a Browning/Miroku.
But I think Sharps was in the majority.
Pedersoli is the best of the imports.
But I think the best value is the C. Sharps 1875.
http://csharpsarms.com/catalog-detai...ing-Rifle.html
Code Name: JET STREAM
Originally Posted by Malamute
Casual shooting once a year or so. Nothing in depth.
Being able to shoot smokeless powder would be a plus.
Have you guys found one action more fun to shoot than the other?
"Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer
I once owned an original Trapdoor Springfield and have shot the Sharp rifles. The Trapdoor with its peculiar action is much more fragile. The Sharps will be the stronger gun. Buy the Sharps and a Lee Loader, a pound of Red Dot shotgun powder, send me a cheap Lee mold, pay the freight on bullets, and I'll ship more than you can shoot. No charge. I need to keep this stuff out of a garage sale after I croak.
Although a Lee Loader is a great choice, the more "period" and fun choice would be a Lyman 310. They're big money in the popular BPCR calibers, but much faster than the Lee Loader and identical to the way the buffalo hunters loaded their cartridges.
If you're going to load actual black powder, get "the book" on it. http://www.4570book.info
It will save you a lot of work to get a baseline load that will shoot well. Plus the book is chock full of the history of the development of the cartridge, results from the army testing, etc. It's well worth the $35 plus shipping.
Last edited by john c; 09-25-2019 at 02:20 AM.
Own both, compete with both, shoot them exclusively with black powder although I am sure the Sharps will stand up to smokeless. Both are well made, accurate for what they are, group ok with .458 cast bullets in the 405gr forms (blunt and round nose). With good loads and good sights I think both can be 3 moa guns.
Both come with too short front sights. The trapdoor had the horrible 1874 rear sight which I promptly swapped for the 1879 sight (1884 Buffington sight is an even better choice). I had a gunsmith mill off the top half of the trapdoor front sight and mill a groove so we could install a proper front sight and eliminate the holdover problem. With the original front sight the gun shot 9" low at 100 yards which I find unacceptable for competition.
I prefer my original trapdoors to the Pedersoli (they were less expensive as well), although they are .360/.361 bores and require hollow base bullets to work correctly and of course black powder loads. But mechanically the Pedersoli trapdoor is quite good once I got the sight problems fixed.
Their Sharps carbines are not as accurate as the custom makers like Shilo, etc. but they are mechanically sound and it is a strong action. I enjoy shooting it and as I said I am confident it would stand up to smokeless loads.
It is possible that the trapdoor would stand up to some of the lower pressure smokeless loads like those branded as "cowboy loads" by HSM and others. I have seen too many pivot pins break and the trapdoors themselves go flying through the air over the years (particularly the H&R reproductions) to accept this design as appropriate for smokeless powder, but some people do it.
I shoot these in our local NCOWS cowboy matches every month, on the timer the Sharps is faster for me. I personally find the trapdoor more fun to shoot but on the timer it is not fast.
Last edited by fatdog; 09-25-2019 at 06:23 AM.
I think some clarification of "smokeless" is in order. Not all smokeless loads are created equal. There is obviously a huge variety of smokeless powders. many make choices on whats cheap to shoot or word of mouth/word of internet/old books. The older info didnt have actual pressure curve into, and that is where they begin to differ. A sharp pressure curve with similar peak pressure will beat on older parts differently and have sharper spikes if it does vary, than a powder that actually mimics black powders pressure curve. Such info is available, but I dont think many seek it out. Id have zero trepidation of using smokeless in older guns, so long as the powder chosen was with actual pressure curve info included in the choice. Pressure and pressure curve, the gun cant tell the difference if black or smokeless with identically performing loads. We also have to take into consideration the loads of an individual. We know that some make mistakes, loads have been found with double bullets, no powder, too much powder. Black is better about that in that its not possible to double bullet or double charge a full load in a case. I, for one, would not load ammo for an old gun on a progressive press, even though Im obsessive about watching every single operation, watching every charge drop, and only run about 300 rd/hr max in the 550 press.
You can also get by using somewhat undersize bullets if they are soft. Most commercial and wheel weight bullets are way too hard to bump up on ignition. Many old factory loads had undersize bullets, but because they were soft swaged or cast, performed fine.
All that said about the powders, cleaning up after black is vastly overblown in how complicated or difficult it is. In many instances, it simpler and quicker than cleaning after smokeless of one is the type to remove jacket fouling and detail clean every time. Hot tap water patches on a smaller bristle brush, change a couple times until clean, a few dry patches, let air dry a couple minutes, oil the bore. Toothbrush in action nooks, wipe dry, oil. done. Once in a while more detail ca be good, but for average, I never did much more and never had problems.
Last edited by Malamute; 09-25-2019 at 10:41 AM.
“Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat.”
― Theodore Roosevelt
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