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Thread: Vickers' 50/50 Rule for M4 Carbines

  1. #1
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    Vickers' 50/50 Rule for M4 Carbines

    Good stuff, as per the usual, from LAV.


  2. #2
    Site Supporter JohnO's Avatar
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    I think it should be kept in mind that LAV is talking "training tip" and preaching to the masses. There are other opinions on how many rounds should be loaded in a 30 round magazine. That number being driven by purpose/use.

    http://soldiersystems.net/2015/06/20...ke-pannone-28/

    Myth

    USGI magazines were only designed to hold 28 rounds. FALSE

    Does anyone really believe that the US military would buy 5.56 magazines by the millions over the last 45 years (official fielding of the 30 round magazine in RVN was approximately 1970) that are spec’d for a 30 round capacity but (wink, wink, smirk) only really hold 28? That is absolutely absurd.

  3. #3
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    My understanding on the "download" concept is simply that it is a way to assure reliability under all circumstances. If all a person is doing is plinking away at the range, no worries. But I have experienced personally and have seen it happen to others, under less than ideal situations, the downloading rounds technique comes in very, very handy. And since you will fight the way you train, I see no problem doing it, as simply a way to assure reliability. Better to be safe than sorry.

    Don't do it, if you don't want to, but it is a legitimate suggestion, to be sure. Take it or leave it.
    Last edited by FredWyn; 09-21-2019 at 09:35 AM.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by FredWyn View Post
    My understanding on the "download" concept is simply that it is a way to assure reliability under all circumstances. If all a person is doing is plinking away at the range, no worries. But I have experienced personally and have seen it happen to others, under less than ideal situations, the downloading rounds technique comes in very, very handy. And since you will fight the way you train, I see no problem doing it, as simply a way to assure reliability. Better to be safe than sorry.

    Don't do it, if you don't want to, but it is a legitimate suggestion, to be sure. Take it or leave it.
    You download your pistol mags too?

  5. #5
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    I have always topped 30 rounders to a full 30 rounds.

    I also vet my magazines and make sure they lock the bolt back 100% of the time. Then I number them to keep track of which mag was in whenever I experience a malfunction, and I discard/exchange any mag that starts acting up.
    Numbering mags, and replacing malfunctioning mags is a hard thing to encourage to cheap people or arms room nannies. Cheap people want their old green follower GI magazines to last forever, and arms room bean counting dickheads just want to bitch out E4's on using more CLP or performing PMCS instead of actually diagnosing whatever the hell is happening with that weapon.
    You can only hose out an M4 or M16 so much before it's clearly not the weapon, but anytime I talk about inspecting magazines or disassembling them to clean the dirt out I get a 'WTF' look like no other.

    Depending on my gear and assignment I'm carrying between 6 and 10 magazines + one in the rifle. That's 14-22 rounds of ammo I'd be leaving behind if I short loaded them.
    I'd be happy to carry less weight, believe me - but I'm firmly of the belief that the only two circumstances anyone can EVER have 'too much ammo' is if you're drowning, or on fire.

  6. #6
    Did all of these steps on my deployments and never had an issue with my m4. Taught my marines to always lock the bolt to the rear and send the bolt home when going condition one. This ensured no one rode the bolt home and then we all hit the forward assist to ensure the bolt went home after a brass check.

    M4 is just as reliable as an ak if it:
    has good mags
    lubed well even in sandy environments
    and operator error is limited by procedures and routines.

    weird

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by JRB View Post
    You can only hose out an M4 or M16 so much before it's clearly not the weapon, but anytime I talk about inspecting magazines or disassembling them to clean the dirt out I get a 'WTF' look like no other.
    And people forget the magazines are truly disposable, or should be treated that way. I don't waste time "repairing" them, I just pull a new one out of stock and go. And once you experience a mag failure and have forgotten to number it...you realize why doing something to distinguish one mag from another is a good idea.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by breakingtime91 View Post
    Did all of these steps on my deployments and never had an issue with my m4. Taught my marines to always lock the bolt to the rear and send the bolt home when going condition one. This ensured no one rode the bolt home and then we all hit the forward assist to ensure the bolt went home after a brass check.

    M4 is just as reliable as an ak if it:
    has good mags
    lubed well even in sandy environments
    and operator error is limited by procedures and routines.

    weird
    I won't disagree with you procedures, but if you're always doing a brass check, why would it matter how you chamber the round...bolt release vs charging?

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Redhat View Post
    I won't disagree with you procedures, but if you're always doing a brass check, why would it matter how you chamber the round...bolt release vs charging?
    cause marines notoriously don't follow directions so it was a way to ensure the lazy or complacent who didn't do a brass check had a round chambered

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redhat View Post
    I won't disagree with you procedures, but if you're always doing a brass check, why would it matter how you chamber the round...bolt release vs charging?
    Redundancy in assuring weapon function is a good thing. You ingrain certain steps as insurance against malfunction.

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