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Thread: Compact and Lightweight, Scout-like, .308 Bolt Gun

  1. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rex G View Post
    Because I normally shoot rifles lefty, and so few left-hand scout rifles have been build with left-hand actions, I have not (yet) bought a scout rifle.
    https://ruger.com/products/scoutRifl...eets/6821.html
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  2. #242
    Quote Originally Posted by Tokarev View Post
    Cooper had some great ideas and much of his thinking still applies today. But that doesn't mean every idea he had was a good one.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Whitlock View Post
    Cooper died in 2006. Don't fault his writings because the world moved on from the context in which they were written. However, do be aware of said context.
    The world moved on even when Cooper was still alive because Cooper tended to solve a problem to his satisfaction then move on to something else. From that point, his interest in the first problem consisted mostly of trying to keep people from even considering anything other than his solution. That's how he missed the boat on the Isosceles stance, the 9mm, most 1911 mods, the Glock, the 5.56 NATO cartridge, the M-16 platform, the variable scope, and a bunch of stuff that are now the cornerstones of our craft.

    Cooper wrote The Art of the Rifle in 1997 to document how the rifle had been used in the 20th century and to imply that he was showing us how it should be used for the 21st. Kyle Lamb wrote Green Eyes & Black Rifles just 20 years later, which I think we all recognize as a far more useful work. There is almost zero overlap in the contents of those two books. For one thing, Cooper's book has nine images of the M-1 Garand, five images of the Krag-Jorgensen, and no images of the M-16.


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  3. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by okie john View Post
    The world moved on even when Cooper was still alive because Cooper tended to solve a problem to his satisfaction then move on to something else. From that point, his interest in the first problem consisted mostly of trying to keep people from even considering anything other than his solution. That's how he missed the boat on the Isosceles stance, the 9mm, most 1911 mods, the Glock, the 5.56 NATO cartridge, the M-16 platform, the variable scope, and a bunch of stuff that are now the cornerstones of our craft.

    Cooper wrote The Art of the Rifle in 1997 to document how the rifle had been used in the 20th century and to imply that he was showing us how it should be used for the 21st. Kyle Lamb wrote Green Eyes & Black Rifles just 20 years later, which I think we all recognize as a far more useful work. There is almost zero overlap in the contents of those two books. For one thing, Cooper's book has nine images of the M-1 Garand, five images of the Krag-Jorgensen, and no images of the M-16.


    Okie John
    Agree 100%. I still like to read my copy of Art of the Rifle, but mostly because of the history it represents -- sort of the same reason I still like to read "Another Country" occasionally.

    Green Eyes & Black Rifles is loaded with good info, but I wouldn't read it for the writing.

  4. #244
    Site Supporter Rex G's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Whitlock View Post
    True, the left-hand Ruger Scout finally did come along. Thanks.

    My “scout rifle fever” had largely healed, by the time the left-hand Ruger option arrived, IIRC.

    Somewhere along the way, I acquired a Browning BLR Takedown, and eventually sourced the forward scope mount for it, but never (yet) got around to adding the Leupold Scout Scope. For a while, I was watching some of the scout scopes, on the evil bay. Whether or not a BLR is sufficiently rugged for “social” purposes, well, I cannot say.
    Retar’d LE

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  5. #245
    Member Wheeler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rex G View Post
    True, the left-hand Ruger Scout finally did come along. Thanks.

    My “scout rifle fever” had largely healed, by the time the left-hand Ruger option arrived, IIRC.

    Somewhere along the way, I acquired a Browning BLR Takedown, and eventually sourced the forward scope mount for it, but never (yet) got around to adding the Leupold Scout Scope. For a while, I was watching some of the scout scopes, on the evil bay. Whether or not a BLR is sufficiently rugged for “social” purposes, well, I cannot say.
    I've been on a casual hunt for a BLR T/D in 3 Oh Hate. I have a standard BLR 81 and some spare mags that I've hunted with a few times and love it as a fast handling lever action. It's rugged enough for social purposes in the same class as a Marlin, Winchester, or one of the newer clones is rugged. If you're expecting to run high round count drills back to back it will probably overheat. I'd like to run the BLR in the local 2 gun 'tactical rifle' match to get a handle on how it will do under stress.
    Men freely believe that which they desire.
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  6. #246
    Site Supporter Rex G's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wheeler View Post
    I've been on a casual hunt for a BLR T/D in 3 Oh Hate. I have a standard BLR 81 and some spare mags that I've hunted with a few times and love it as a fast handling lever action. It's rugged enough for social purposes in the same class as a Marlin, Winchester, or one of the newer clones is rugged. If you're expecting to run high round count drills back to back it will probably overheat. I'd like to run the BLR in the local 2 gun 'tactical rifle' match to get a handle on how it will do under stress.
    Well, I add the ruggedness disclaimer to head-off the haters, who seem to come out of nowhere, whenever I mention “BLR.”
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  7. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rex G View Post
    Well, I add the ruggedness disclaimer to head-off the haters, who seem to come out of nowhere, whenever I mention “BLR.”
    Yeah, I'm familiar with that conversation. I've run a couple of Winchester 94s in tactical rifle matches just to annoy the other shooters and did a lot better than folks, including myself expected. Lee Weems' Social Levergun class is a good intro.

    I like my BLR and am pretty biased towards them.
    Men freely believe that which they desire.
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  8. #248
    Quote Originally Posted by Wheeler View Post
    Yeah, I'm familiar with that conversation. I've run a couple of Winchester 94s in tactical rifle matches just to annoy the other shooters and did a lot better than folks, including myself expected. Lee Weems' Social Levergun class is a good intro.

    I like my BLR and am pretty biased towards them.
    Me and some buds have informal 3-gun matches, and they have often been surprised at how quickly I can run a lever gun when it comes to delivering aimed fire at high accountability targets.

    Once we've fired enough rounds to make it into an encyclopedia, the ARs clearly have an advantage.
    I was into 10mm Auto before it sold out and went mainstream, but these days I'm here for the revolver and epidemiology information.

  9. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lester Polfus View Post
    Me and some buds have informal 3-gun matches, and they have often been surprised at how quickly I can run a lever gun when it comes to delivering aimed fire at high accountability targets.

    Once we've fired enough rounds to make it into an encyclopedia, the ARs clearly have an advantage.
    That was pretty much my experience. The stage designs were somewhat stagnant. Ten rounds and a mag change on most every rifle stage except for the ones that were ten rounds and transition to a pistol while holding your rifle with one hand. I'd do quite well for the first ten rounds, it was the reloads that would beat me up. even then I never finished last.
    Men freely believe that which they desire.
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  10. #250
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    Cooper Irrelevant?

    It is important to consider Jeff Cooper as product of his time but most importantly as the father of modern personal defense pistol shooting as well as bringing together and codifying rifle technique. I bought a copy of The Art of the Rifle when first published and it was a bit of a let down. There was nothing new it but at that time I was devouring everything Cooper had written. In years since when I pick it up I am amazed at how well written it is but also how insightful. Funny that my perception should change so much over time. The book is about the of shooting a rifle, not a particular rifle although the Scout Rifle is prominently featured. Kyle Lamb's book is also a great book but more fundamentally about the AR as a weapon system and clearly moves beyond Cooper in positional techniques, something rather absent in most rifle literature. In fact, the biggest downside to his book are that pages detach from the binding creating a real mess every time it is opened.

    Cooper couldn't get over the poddle shooter label but as the AR platform evolved, the bare bones 16 inch AR with a red dot seems to me to be the perfect Scout Rifle because it seems to satisfy virtually all but one of the requirements (Cooper's preference was for a hunting based Scout Rifle in a medium sized game animal caliber).

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