Compact and Lightweight, Scout-like, .308 Bolt Gun

[DacoRoman]

FWIW I have an early 16.5” Ruger Scout and the barrel is actually 17.25”. It’s like they got the specs settled and someone said “let’s add a threaded section for a flash suppressor or other muzzle device!”. And then they added 3/4” but didn’t change the specs.

Good to know that insider info regarding the "extra" barrel length! Thanks!

[DacoRoman]

Another, albeit price option:

https://www.eurooptic.com/Christense...-03001-00.aspx

Christensen Arms Modern Precision Rifle .308 Win 16" 1:10" Black 801-03001-00
SKU 801-03001-00-CA



Attachment 42689

wow, intriguing! thanks for the kindly tip

so where are we with the evil features issue, if it is a bolt gun then we don't have start counting, is that right? i.e. the pistol grip, etc..although again we are putting muzzle breaks on, not flash hiders, so basically that's only 2 evil features: pistol grip and detachable mag for this impressive looking beast

[DacoRoman]

Lots of good info here!

Having compared the action and triggers on the Tikka and the Steyr, I will take the Tikka every time. The best rifle to start with, and expand with. A 20” Tikka T3x CTR fits your requirements/desirements very well. Very accurate factory barrel, threaded muzzle, 10-round box magazine, reasonable 7.5lb weight.

If you decide to grow with the rifle, Tikkashooters.com sells trigger springs for the factory trigger, KRG sells the excellent Bravo chassis, KRG sells an outstanding replacement trigger, and Patriot Valley Arms sells prefit replacement barrels. You can go nuts refining the rifle and add switch barrels for varmints, big game, or long range precision.

I think the Tikka has the best capability for growth and aftermarket flexibility.

You make a strong argument counselor!

Do you have any thoughts regarding the T3X Lite Compact and the CTR? We go from 5.9lbs to 7.5lbs but it seems the Tactical comes with the 10 round mag, which apparently is like at least 100 bucks (!), better trigger?, and more built up stock with a cheek piece, etc.

[HCM]

wow, intriguing! thanks for the kindly tip

so where are we with the evil features issue, if it is a bolt gun then we don't have start counting, is that right? i.e. the pistol grip, etc..although again we are putting muzzle breaks on, not flash hiders, so basically that's only 2 evil features: pistol grip and detachable mag for this impressive looking beast

Not a semi auto. All that is irrelevant.

On another note have you ever dealt with evil ? Inanimate objects aren’t evil, they are merely things.

[DacoRoman]

As an owner of a SFP 2.5-10, I don't understand what the purpose of a FFP 2.5-10 would be. SFP gives you a usable reticle at 2.5x that is also precise at 10x. If you need ranging or hold overs you'll be at 10x anyways.

The Bushnell LRHS and LRTS gets a lot of praise over on Snipers Hide. The HS has a thick ring that allows the reticle to be usable at low power. I believe it's offered in a 3-12 model.

Yeah I understand what you are saying.

In that magnification range I could totally see either being at 2.5 for out to 100-200 (possibly a bit more), and then might as well go to 10X for everything beyond, especially beyond 300 yards.

I guess FFP with its consistent reticle sub-tensions would be nice in case you are shooting at 100-400 yards and want to go with 5X for faster multiple target acquisition and better situational awareness and not getting lost in the scope as much?

Last time I did a timed run on targets from 100-450 I shot it at 5X, but then again 5X was my maximum available magnification (SFP scope).

In any case SFP in 2.5-10X would not be a deal breaker at all, you are right.

[DacoRoman]

Not a semi auto. All that is irrelevant.

On another note have you ever dealt with evil ? Inanimate objects aren’t evil, they are merely things.

not a semi-auto, check

regarding your second comment, ya think?

[OlongJohnson]

Could you source that comment about the plastic in the BLR? This is the first I've heard of it and I'd like to substantiate that before moving forward with a planned build on one.

Thanks for pushing me for the clarification. I had read that at some point, and whoever posted it then didn't get jumped on for being wrong. Googling now, lots of guys are getting jumped on for being wrong when they say something about a "plastic gear," but it seems to be a matter of clarification/precision of language. A plastic bushing that can wear and lead to sufficient lash in the geartrain to have problems, or something along those lines. At least, this post and further down in the same thread seems to be the most detailed and clear discussion from first-hand knowledge that I can readily find:

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...ion#Post398776

Should give you some ideas of what to search on.

ETA: Found this cutaway pic that was apparently posted on Browning's site at some point. The issue as I understand it is that when stuff wears, the depth of engagement between the fine teeth on the pinion gear and the fine teeth on the lever loop becomes poorly controlled, and they can jam or skip under load. Seems like something that could be upgraded or fine-tuned relatively easily, although perhaps not without some tradeoffs. Or maybe just keep the wear parts changed out on a sufficiently frequent schedule.



You'll find this guy mentioned as a BLR trigger guru. Probably worth calling him to get a more reliable opinion than some idiot on the internet can provide: http://www.neiljones.com/html/gunsmithing.html

[DacoRoman]

Well, just to echo someone else.....

...why 308? There's better cartridges for the purpose of this rifle.

I still don't get the draw for a LVPO on this rifle, but hey, it's yours to build.

Why .308. Well that round has such a proven track record and history for being a sort of gold standard for shooting out to 600-800 yards (and even further out with the right skill and equipment - for my skills and planned rifle, 500-600 yards would good enough) that I wouldn't even begin to do it justice with an argument apologizing for it. It speaks for itself I think, especially in the type of rifle I'm considering. Lest we forget that Jeff Cooper himself decided on a .308 for his scout rifle. Maybe he was wrong, but I certainly won't be the one proving him wrong, because I don't think I could.

So the question ought to really be, why not the .308? Especially given its ubiquitousness and relative low cost. What caliber are you thinking would be a better choice?

And regarding the LPVO. What other magnification would allow you to shoot at a charging bear from 25 yards in, and also allow you shoot a reduced IPSC torso at 500 yards from the prone? I think 1-8X is pretty hard to beat. The 2.5-10X would be better at 500 yards on 10X, but the 2.5X would be a lot worse for the charging bear...especially with a bolt gun. EDIT: especially since you're likely to only get one shot off, maybe two, depending on how fast the bear is coming at you, which I'd much rather take at 1X.

[DacoRoman]

Thanks for pushing me for the clarification. I had read that at some point, and whoever posted it then didn't get jumped on for being wrong. Googling now, lots of guys are getting jumped on for being wrong when they say something about a "plastic gear," but it seems to be a matter of clarification/precision of language. A plastic bushing that can wear and lead to sufficient lash in the geartrain to have problems, or something along those lines. At least, this post and further down in the same thread seems to be the most detailed and clear discussion from first-hand knowledge that I can readily find:

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...ion#Post398776

Should give you some ideas of what to search on.

ETA: Found this cutaway pic that was apparently posted on Browning's site at some point. The issue as I understand it is that when stuff wears, the depth of engagement between the fine teeth on the pinion gear and the fine teeth on the lever loop becomes poorly controlled, and they can jam or skip under load. Seems like something that could be upgraded or fine-tuned relatively easily, although perhaps not without some tradeoffs. Or maybe just keep the wear parts changed out on a sufficiently frequent schedule.



Good stuff, thanks for adding this.

You'll find this guy mentioned as a BLR trigger guru. Probably worth calling him to get a more reliable opinion than some idiot on the internet can provide: http://www.neiljones.com/html/gunsmithing.html

[TGS]

Why .308. Well that round has such a proven track record and history for being a sort of gold standard for shooting out to 600-800 yards (and even further out with the right skill and equipment - for my skills and planned rifle, 500-600 yards would good enough) that I wouldn't even begin to do it justice with an argument apologizing for it. It speaks for itself I think, especially in the type of rifle I'm considering. Lest we forget that Jeff Cooper himself decided on a .308 for his scout rifle. Maybe he was wrong, but I certainly won't be the one proving him wrong, because I don't think I could.

So the question ought to really be, why not the .308? Especially given its ubiquitousness and relative low cost. What caliber are you thinking would be a better choice?

And regarding the LPVO. What other magnification would allow you to shoot at a charging bear from 25 yards in, and also allow you shoot a reduced IPSC torso at 500 yards from the prone? I think 1-8X is pretty hard to beat. The 2.5-10X would be better at 500 yards on 10X, but the 2.5X would be a lot worse for the charging bear...especially with a bolt gun. EDIT: especially since you're likely to only get one shot off, maybe two, depending on how fast the bear is coming at you, which I'd much rather take at 1X.

Jeff Cooper wasn't wrong, but that Scout Rifle concept of his was also what......50-60 years ago?

If you're set on the Tikka T3 Compact Lite, they have that rifle in 6.5 Creedmoor. Lower recoil, flatter trajectory, higher sectional density. It's better in virtually every way. The 308 isn't ubiquitous or famous because of its merit, but rather because a bunch of dumbasses in the 50s who paid lip-service to the intermediate cartridge concept but in reality wanted a full power .30" rifle round and forced it on NATO when everyone knew back then there were better options as well. It's a mediocre cartridge, and for shooting 600-800 yards is not the gold standard. It can do it, but it in no way excels at it compared to a number of other cartridges these days.

As for cost, yeah the average cost for 308 is about a quarter lower per round than 6.5 Creedmoor considering all the military FMJ service ammo out there.....but so what? Are you running an entry carbine, F/A sear host, or a bolt action rifle? Concentrating on the cost of the ammo for a bolt action rifle (especially one with such particular goals as yours) is penny-wise/pound foolish, especially when you consider that the premium cartridges are about the same. Premium cartridges for 6.5 Creedmoor go from $.70-1.45, about the same for premium 308. You're not going to be blasting away tons of ammo through the gun, buy the better round for the mission.

As for LPVO, okay, makes sense, but that charging bear scenario wasn't in your otherwise clearly stated goals for the rifle. FWIW, that's going to require carrying the rifle at all times in 1x, instead of in the power you're actually using for hunting.