Shield Arms S15 Glock 43X/48 pre order open

[Texaspoff]

I checked the US Patent and Trademark Office file history of the published application. It has been allowed, but not with the claims in the publication. In order to gain allowance, the applicant added a limitation that the magazine has a stepped portion between the double stack portion and the upper end of the tube. The stepped portion is required to have an upper sloped portion, a lower sloped portion, and a vertical portion between the upper and lower sloped portions.

Once that patent issues, which will happen on November 19, any magazine having each and every feature recited in at least one claim would infringe the patent.

Maybe I'm just a simpleton, but I am not seeing why the 365 magazine is tremendously different than every other staggered magazine out there. All staggered magazines step down to a single round feeding onto the chamber. I am not seeing anything on the 365 magazine, other than the length of the single stack step that may have a different measurement than other mags, but it that really enough to allow a patent on.

It seems to me that if that comes to fruition, that every manufacturer that produced a double stack magazine is going to have to pay royalties.

Sig was able to pull off the 365 magazine by maximizing the width and height of their double stack magazine, getting it in the smallest footprint they could, then they built the pistol around it. They themselves admit this. I just don't see anything revolutionary about the magazine. Good for them and it is creating others to push forward and pursue the same, see Hellcat.

It seems to me Sig is just trying to prevent the rest of the market in competing with them. Some of this stuff is getting ridiculous. I always feel like a company is trying to force consumers into purchasing their products with these kind of tactics. i get protecting themselves as a company, but a magazine patent, really?... I just haven't been really happy with Sig business practices since Cohen took over, so I guess this really shouldn't be surprising.


It so obvious they are different, right?







TXPO

[BillSWPA]

Maybe I'm just a simpleton, but I am not seeing why the 365 magazine is tremendously different than every other staggered magazine out there. All staggered magazines step down to a single round feeding onto the chamber. I am not seeing anything on the 365 magazine, other than the length of the single stack step that may have a different measurement than other mags, but it that really enough to allow a patent on.

It seems to me that if that comes to fruition, that every manufacturer that produced a double stack magazine is going to have to pay royalties.

Sig was able to pull off the 365 magazine by maximizing the width and height of their double stack magazine, getting it in the smallest footprint they could, then they built the pistol around it. They themselves admit this. I just don't see anything revolutionary about the magazine. Good for them and it is creating others to push forward and pursue the same, see Hellcat.

It seems to me Sig is just trying to prevent the rest of the market in competing with them. Some of this stuff is getting ridiculous. I always feel like a company is trying to force consumers into purchasing their products with these kind of tactics. i get protecting themselves as a company, but a magazine patent, really?... I just haven't been really happy with Sig business practices since Cohen took over, so I guess this really shouldn't be surprising.



TXPO

In order to obtain a patent, the applicant has to draft claims to an invention which is novel (no one has done it before) and non-obvious (one skilled in the art and familiar with all prior or it would not find it obvious). Anything that existed prior to the filing date of the application is prior art, and can be used to show that the invention is either not novel or is obvious. If someone was making a magazine having this design before the patent application was filed, not only would they not owe Sig royalties, but that fact could be used to invalidate the patent.

Getting a patent is not an easy process, but it is well worth doing when something that is novel, non-obvious, and provides a competitive advantage is developed. In this case, Sig produced a magazine configuration that allows an unusually high capacity in an unusually thin pistol. Most inventions are small improvements over the prior art. The specific magazine structure may seem like a small change, but it is game changing in terms of what it achieves.

I have prepared and prosecuted patent applications for 22 years at this point and it is more difficult today than it was when I first started. Examiners are much stricter today in making sure that the requirements for patentability are met. As a result, we can be reasonably assured that any patent that has been issued within the past several years will be of generally good quality.

[BillSWPA]

I do hope that these magazines make it to market and work, I really do.

As for SIG....I have disliked them for a good while. For many, many years we were a SIG direct dealer.

Many years ago we special ordered a SIG556 SBR for a customer. He was on the shorter side. SBR comes in and it does not have the collapsible side folding stock that it was supposed to have even though the label on the box indicated that it should have. A check of SIGs website indicates a side folding collapsible stock. A call to SIG reveals that the stock had been "updated" to be side folding only. We deal with the pissed customer who no longer wanted the SBR. SIG didn't want the SBR back so we were stuck. We ended up selling it about a year later. Thanks SIG.

A few years back we sold a P290 to a customer. The gun didn't work properly and needed to go back to SIG for service. When I called to arrange the service I was told that since the gun was not owned by the original owner it was not covered under warranty. This was strange since we sold the gun and had received it directly from SIG. The CS person told me that Gander Mountain had sold the gun. Long story short, SIG had sent the gun to Gander Mountain and GM had returned it to SIG. We then received it when we ordered the P290. It took a bit to clear this up but it was enough to piss me off pretty good. Thanks SIG.

During the post-Sandy Hook sales craze we had issues with SIG changing features of M400, 516, and 716 rifles. We actually had to put a disclaimner that the rifle received may not match what SIG advertised the rifle to actually come with. Thanks SIG.

After the 2016 election when the industry really started turning to shit SIG began a strict enforcement of MAP policy. I had listed an auction on Gunbroker where I was under MAP by $0.99. We actually got two phone calls and several emails about losing our SIG Dealer status due to this. I had corrected the issue when it was brought to our attention, but ever after that we were getting constant reminders about MAP. Thanks SIG.

10 years ago SIG would randomly ship biometric safes with orders. Safes you didn't order, but they sure charged you for them. Of course you had to call and explain that you not only didn't order the said safe but also didn't really want it Thanks SIG.

So, bitching aside, what was the point of me writing all this? I totally believe SIG would pull a C&D.

Those are all horrible examples of customer service, but many good companies send cease and desist letters when their formally protected intellectual property is infringed. If they cannot stop someone else who didn’t put in the time and expense of developing it from selling it, why develop anything new?



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[Old Man Winter]

I just haven't been really happy with Sig business practices since Cohen took over, so I guess this really shouldn't be surprising.

Vote with your wallet. Sig makes nothing I want enough to overlook their quality control and general douchiness under present leadership.

[echo5charlie]

Those are all horrible examples of customer service, but many good companies send cease and desist letters when their formally protected intellectual property is infringed. If they cannot stop someone else who didn’t put in the time and expense of developing it from selling it, why develop anything new?



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Because it’s SIG. the company sucks. They didn’t exactly develop a new magazine design to accommodate a single stack firearm to handle a double stack mag, they are just douchey enough to file a patent for it. For example: Makarov high capacity magazines, developed but not patented. Shit, the “high cap” Makarovs are even backwards compatible with the single stack mags.

There is nothing revolutionary about the 365 magazine design, just super douche SIG being SIG and filing for a patent.

[BillSWPA]

Because it’s SIG. the company sucks. They didn’t exactly develop a new magazine design to accommodate a single stack firearm to handle a double stack mag, they are just douchey enough to file a patent for it. For example: Makarov high capacity magazines, developed but not patented. Shit, the “high cap” Makarovs are even backwards compatible with the single stack mags.

There is nothing revolutionary about the 365 magazine design, just super douche SIG being SIG and filing for a patent.

Read my post above describing what it takes to obtain a patent.

A patent examiner who works in the firearms art, holds an engineering degree, and has looked at this in detail disagrees with you.



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[MSparks909]

So in layman’s terms, if the C&D letter is real, then the mags aren’t coming to market? Or if they do make it to market before the 19th (doubtful) then anymore made after that would be in violation of the C&D letter? That sucks. Was really looking forward to a 15 round G48...although the fact that they’re made by Checkmate is definitely off putting.

[echo5charlie]

Read my post above describing what it takes to obtain a patent.

A patent examiner who works in the firearms art, holds an engineering degree, and has looked at this in detail disagrees with you.



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This person should realize that I stated an opinion*, not a brief that SIG actually didn't have a "real" patent?


* - 1)That SIG sucks and does sucky things and really sucks & 2) I find their patent non-revolutionary. Opinion noun def: a view, judgment, or appraisal formed in the mind about a particular matter.

[BillSWPA]

This person should realize that I stated an opinion*, not a brief that SIG actually didn't have a "real" patent?


* - 1)That SIG sucks and does sucky things and really sucks & 2) I find their patent non-revolutionary. Opinion noun def: a view, judgment, or appraisal formed in the mind about a particular matter.

Your point?

[echo5charlie]

Your point?

Well, I'm now assuming you're the aforementioned engineer. Sorry, I can't help you any further.