I, for one, would appreciate that. The older I get, the less I want to spend my time picking the fly shit out of the pepper. Notes from those that have already done that, and know what they are talking about, are invaluable.Originally Posted by Jay Cunningham
My personal experience is simply what I’ve witnessed with my own eyes in hundreds of hours of training and practice since 2006 - which is - the small number of KAC guns (of all types) have had a disproportionally high incidence of issues.Stronger than Colt?
What is your personal experience with the SR-15?
The majority have been cycle issues, such as short-stroking. Always explained away by needing to tweak ammo/springs, which is fine. But these are boutique guns with a boutique price tag claimed to be covered with awesome sauce. Seen a small number of extraction and ejection issues as well, but mainly the finicky operating cycle. To be completely fair, I’ve also seen very similar issues with 14.5” mid length guns (from various manufacturers).
I have no beef with KAC, but I’d never spend the money on one. It might be because I’m not at the level that I can wring the extra performance out of the hardware. I acknowledge that.
Last edited by Jay Cunningham; 09-22-2019 at 12:15 PM.
How long ago was that Armorers course ? There was a time when “ABC” (Armalite, Bushmaster, Colt) was the best of what was available and Colt was the only one making a gun to full spec including QC processes. That was 20 years ago. A long war and the renaissance of the ARs in the wake of the AWB sunset has changed a lot.
Despite the signal to noise ratios, another thing that has changed since then is increased availability of quality information.
As you said Colt set the standard but today they are no longer the only company who maintains it via proper inspection processes.
There is now definitely such a thing a better than Colt /Milspec, KAC, Hodge, etc. is that necessary ? Not for most (including me) but it’s nice to have.
Going back to the inspection process, yes it makes a difference. The starkest illustration of this is when companies like Rock River and Bushmaster had to make guns to the TDP spec including the inspection processes for FBI /DEA and TX DPS. Unsurprisingly, those guns did not have the issues their commercial guns did.
Despite those contracts you won’t see me equating BM or RR commercial guns with Colt commercial guns. These companies are capable of making a “spec” AR and deliberately choose not to do so in pursuit of additional profit.
This also isn’t like growing pains we see in new designers like Glock’s 40 year head start vs SIGs P320. The AR is a mature design and the specs and processes for making a “proper” AR are well established.
I own several Colts. Like many things I like them but I try to be realistic about what they are and are not.
Would you say that those folks were gun-poor and shooting less than useful ammo for the fancy blaster that they've modded to the edge of reliability?
Think for yourself. Question authority.
Good question.
Sample of one but I ran about 2k rounds of premium federal brand ammo through an older GOV property SR-16 in a week long patrol rifle class without issue.
I’d say that the KAC guns weren’t modded - people thought they were paying the money to get the reliability and accuracy out of the box, kind of like Wilson Combat.
I really don’t think anyone was running Wolf out of their KAC guns, either. A lot of them were finicky even with “good” ammo as far as I could tell.
In the other cases with the 14.5” mid lengths in general yes I think there was a lot of messing around and underpowered ammo and buffers which were too heavy for the application.
That would strike me as a reliable combo.
Think for yourself. Question authority.
I’ve also seen KAC guns run flawlessly. I’ve also seen Bushmasters and DPMS run flawlessly and everything in between.
I expected to be more impressed by KAC guns because of the mystique and the price tag.
I would say that out of the box Colt and BCM are reliable. S&W can be made very reliable with minor tweaking, and Bushmaster can be made very reliable with major tweaking. DPMS isn’t worth it. Noveskes seem to run well but not enough to justify the expense. I haven’t really seen SiG or SA carbines up close.
Well it damn well should be for the money, shouldn’t it?
Especially considering I can have the same level of reliability for much less money.
Unless the claim is that a KAC gun with premium ammo is “more” reliable than a Colt 6920 with American Eagle or PMC. 400 rds/day (2000 in a week long course) should not be a stressful thing for the rifle.
Your experience with S&W matches mine. Our local PD (2000 officers) doesn’t issue cabinets but had an M&P purchase program through the local POA so we see a lot of them. They have since switched to SOLGW with excellent results.
My experience with Noveske is the only thing special about them is the barrel. Put a Noveske barrel on a 6920 and you won’t be able to tell the difference. My Noveske is accurate and reliable with quality ammo. Change a few variables (like a suppressor) and it will choke.
The US Border Patrol have been running BCM uppers on existing guns for a few years now with excellent results
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