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Thread: P320 issue in PA

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lester Polfus View Post
    Since this happened in a transit station in a major East Coast city, I would be quite surprised if it WASN'T captured on video. I am tempted to wildly speculate that the video is the reason they did an emergency purchase of new guns, and fielded borrowed pistols in the interim, instead of looking for a way to fry the involved officer.

    Having said that, I'd be interested in knowing about other factors as well. I was behind an officer in line at *$ the other day, and found myself looking down into the huge gap around his WML equipped Glock trigger guard thinking all sorts of stuff could get in there and wreak havoc, not only causing an AD but also potentially jamming the gun in the holster. I lived through the years when one of our Sergeants carried a pair of EMT shears for the express purpose of cutting the adjusting cords with the little barrel locks off people's jackets, and it's like we haven't learned anything.

    I'm super skeptical of the "it just went off" story, but if this guy was just walking around doing his job and the gun randomly discharged in the holster, I feel pretty bad for him.

    I stopped carrying a WML on my Glock. Way to easy to shoot the gun INSIDE the holster.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom_Jones View Post
    It blocks the trigger bar from moving forward, essentially blocking the trigger from moving. However, with the safety on, the sear can still rotate downward when sufficient force is applied. It should be blocked from movement by the second "leg" added to the sear that sits behind the trigger bar (a change added during the "upgrade" that wasn't mentioned, to the best of my recollection, when they were talking about the changes that were to come), but due to the floating nature of the trigger bar (which is a key part of the trigger reset mechanism -- both pre and post upgrade), the trigger bar can be displaced downward by that second leg which allows the sear to rotate.

    I'm sure my description, with all the gratuitous parenthetical garbage, is unclear and confusing but I've tried as long as I'm willing to do so to make it better and this is as good as it gets from me. Sorry.

    ETA: While apropos of nothing or really even germane to this discussion, the P365 is pretty much a redesign of the P320 action in to a smaller package (the way they operate is the same, despite all the parts being different -- sort of like the Glock and the CZ P10 series). On the P365, the thumb safety essentially just blocks the sear from moving downward -- or that's what I was able to determine during the time I played with one at SHOT this year.
    If I am understanding what you are saying correctly: the P365 Manual Safety is theoretically safer than the P320 Manual Safety since it actually blocks the sear?

  3. #63
    Site Supporter Hambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lester Polfus View Post
    Having said that, I'd be interested in knowing about other factors as well. I was behind an officer in line at *$ the other day, and found myself looking down into the huge gap around his WML equipped Glock trigger guard thinking all sorts of stuff could get in there and wreak havoc, not only causing an AD but also potentially jamming the gun in the holster.
    In the end I think we'll find that the problem isn't a SF pistol, it's the plastic bucket design of WML holsters for SF pistols.
    "Gunfighting is a thinking man's game. So we might want to bring thinking back into it."-MDFA

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by TheNewbie View Post
    I stopped carrying a WML on my Glock. Way to easy to shoot the gun INSIDE the holster.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hambo View Post
    In the end I think we'll find that the problem isn't a SF pistol, it's the plastic bucket design of WML holsters for SF pistols.
    I left LE before my agency allowed WMLs for general use, so I don't have that much skin in this game. However, when we backpack, at night I secure a condition 3 Glock with WML inside a Safariland retention holster. I feel like it offers a good degree of readiness, while still keeping my five year old from getting ahold of the gun. I do make double damn sure it's really condition three, because there's plenty of room for a little finger to get down in there.

    Instead of cramming more lumens into the existing form factors, I think the biggest favor WML manufacturers could do is give us lights that have the same level of output, but fit in a smaller package that is more streamlined to the gun, so the holster doesn't have to resemble the Great Pit of Carkoon.
    Last edited by Lester Polfus; 09-14-2019 at 11:04 AM.
    I was into 10mm Auto before it sold out and went mainstream, but these days I'm here for the revolver and epidemiology information.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by HCM View Post
    Nothing public about the in holster ND involving the FL SRO. I’m hearing That one did not “just go off” as originally reported.
    I hate to even offer this but a friend of mine had a chance to ask another Sheriff within that department about this case, he just rolled his eyes and said "Guns don't just go off by themselves". That came off to me like he knew what happened, but could only say so much about it.

  6. #66
    Member TGS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hambo View Post
    In the end I think we'll find that the problem isn't a SF pistol, it's the plastic bucket design of WML holsters for SF pistols.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheNewbie View Post
    I stopped carrying a WML on my Glock. Way to easy to shoot the gun INSIDE the holster.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lester Polfus View Post
    I was behind an officer in line at *$ the other day, and found myself looking down into the huge gap around his WML equipped Glock trigger guard thinking all sorts of stuff could get in there and wreak havoc, not only causing an AD but also potentially jamming the gun in the holster.
    FWIW, while the legacy ALS/SLS body leaves a lot of room around the trigger guard, the newer 7TS versions don't have this issue.
    "Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by TGS View Post
    FWIW, while the legacy ALS/SLS body leaves a lot of room around the trigger guard, the newer 7TS versions don't have this issue.
    Beat me to it. Especially the models for compact wmls, like the XC-1, TLR-7 and 550 XL.

  8. #68
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    So, I talked to someone from the training division at SEMTA. He said they are very confident that the pistol discharged in its holster spontaneously, without the trigger being touched. Wouldn't really get into detail about why they believed that (video or multiple witnesses), or what went Into the immediate decision to buys Glock 17's, or who made the decision. Also said the gun "misfired", so....not sure what level of confidence to place on this report. Fuck, it's hard to get clear answers on this stuff....and it really shouldn't be.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    If this was a Glock, we would all be saying let’s see some more information before jumping to conclusions. Since it involves a 320, this just lights the old fire again. I wouldn’t bet either way as to what happened. There are an awful lot of 320 pistols out in circulation, so if they are spontaneously going off, we will know soon.
    Was my first reaction on reading the article, too. Seems like we'd need a better understanding of exactly what happened with the ND, and also, why the agency so abruptly switched 300+ pistols--throwing away all that investment, training, etc.--on the basis of a single ND. You wonder if there's more of a back story that hasn't come out or won't be released. Not just about the ND incident, but their decision as a whole.

  10. #70
    I've seen some SEPTA officers qualify. I think it is fair to say that some SEPTA officers are less than fully competent in handling their firearms. So while not a SIG 320 fan myself, I'd hold off on assuming that there is something wrong with the pistol and wait for an unbiased report--if there ever is one.

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