Page 10 of 13 FirstFirst ... 89101112 ... LastLast
Results 91 to 100 of 128

Thread: FCC banning FRS combination radios September 30 2019

  1. #91
    Member rkittine's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Location
    Sag Harbor & Manhattan, New York
    The Chinese did their normal copy cat thing and came out with cheap radios, that many, including HAMs have bought. I have two, don't use either of them for anything but receive. Put them on the IFR Spectrum Monitor and the spurious emissions were all over the place and strong. Out at the range, they would not interfere with anyone except possibly someone using the same junk in the area.

    Bob
    WA2YDV

  2. #92
    New Member schüler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    TX
    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbkr View Post
    Possibly, but their warning was put out to the ham community which doesn't use any sort of encryption per the rules.

    I'm not up to speed on DMR, does it have an encryption capability? I haven't heard anything about it in the amateur radio community and one would think the oldtimers (the CW or die folks) would be up in arms over that.

    That said, some of the recent actions by the FCC against vendors (ie Rugged Radios) has been due to the analog stuff. Also, referenced is the preponderance of the cheap Baofengs at virtually every protest.

    Chris
    DMR radios can feature encryption and yes every single one of those brands I mentioned have some encryption capability available or can provide low bandwidth capability to analog radios.

    People have been playing fast and loose with LMR, MURS, etc. for a long time.

    CB is often brought up, but I put it in the legal GMRS category; a lot of people have it, radios are not conducive to modifications/interfacing for different modes and output is limited. Like throwing baseballs when you want/need a rifle. HOWEVER, a single side band (SSB) CB can do generally do best of all unlicensed personal comms. Audio is shifted and sounds Mickey Mouse-ish. SSB-capable CBs and 102" antennas will run you ~$200 at each end for the equipment alone. Most urban/suburban people aren't going to be happy with that size antenna, the mounting requirements, audio quality/legibility and the sometimes heavy use by others.

    VHF is better in rural areas. Height is everything. Buy as much power as you can. Generally this means getting a single band VHF ham radio with as high a gain antenna you can live with. With a tower, Heliax, amplifier, receive pre-amp and directional antenna you can talk 150mi point to point... but that's waaaaay beyond the interest of most people. And it puts your radio traffic on blast to everyone in between.

    UHF is better in urban areas. It reflects/multi-paths more readily, especially at the higher end, say 900MHz. But the higher freqs are easily absorbed by rural flora.

    This is a helpful line of sight terrain graphing tool for those trying to talk point to point. It helps you visualize your reality:
    https://www.scadacore.com/tools/rf-p...line-of-sight/

  3. #93
    Site Supporter
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Quote Originally Posted by schüler View Post
    DMR radios can feature encryption and yes every single one of those brands I mentioned have some encryption capability available or can provide low bandwidth capability to analog radios.

    People have been playing fast and loose with LMR, MURS, etc. for a long time.
    Yeah, I did some reading after your post. Encryption appears to be an artifact of DMR's corporate background that got carried through by the copycats. It's not legal to use on the amateur bands, but it's there.

    Quote Originally Posted by schüler View Post
    CB is often brought up, but I put it in the legal GMRS category; a lot of people have it, radios are not conducive to modifications/interfacing for different modes and output is limited. Like throwing baseballs when you want/need a rifle. HOWEVER, a single side band (SSB) CB can do generally do best of all unlicensed personal comms. Audio is shifted and sounds Mickey Mouse-ish. SSB-capable CBs and 102" antennas will run you ~$200 at each end for the equipment alone. Most urban/suburban people aren't going to be happy with that size antenna, the mounting requirements, audio quality/legibility and the sometimes heavy use by others.
    Even on AM, if you put the effort into a proper install, it should outperform GMRS. SSB would do even better due to being more efficient than AM or FM, but it's still 4w and requires a large antenna. It's not convenient (install-wise or aesthetically), but does have potential if you approach it right.

    Quote Originally Posted by schüler View Post
    VHF is better in rural areas. Height is everything. Buy as much power as you can. Generally this means getting a single band VHF ham radio with as high a gain antenna you can live with. With a tower, Heliax, amplifier, receive pre-amp and directional antenna you can talk 150mi point to point... but that's waaaaay beyond the interest of most people. And it puts your radio traffic on blast to everyone in between.
    That's a bit overkill for anything that isn't mission critical and permanent. I've done 65 mile point-to-point on 5w and a j-pole up in a tree and be perfectly legible to the other guy. Others have done 100m or more with just a little more power and maybe a yagi antenna on a short mast. I use a single-band radio for that, but more because it has one of the best receivers in an FM handheld. The next closest runner-up (more of a paper difference than one noticeable in the field) is a dual-bander. My interests are in getting a signal out as far as possible with the smallest and lightest station I can assemble. After all, I have to carry it to the location and back again. Summits On The Air (SOTA) has been good practice for that sort of thing.

    And yeah, anyone can listen in. Reference my earlier post where the lady on the other side of a mountain picked up my transmissions after they reflected off the opposite mountain. If it's mission critical and sensitive, it shouldn't be on the amateur bands.

    Quote Originally Posted by schüler View Post
    UHF is better in urban areas. It reflects/multi-paths more readily, especially at the higher end, say 900MHz. But the higher freqs are easily absorbed by rural flora.
    I do virtually all of my long-haul comms out in the mountains. I've found UHF to be virtually useless, but partially because folks aren't randomly listening on those frequencies when I'm trying to do a SOTA activation.

    This is a helpful line of sight terrain graphing tool for those trying to talk point to point. It helps you visualize your reality:
    https://www.scadacore.com/tools/rf-p...line-of-sight/[/QUOTE]
    That's a neat tool!

    Chris

  4. #94
    Site Supporter
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX
    Quote Originally Posted by GyroF-16 View Post
    Okay- would any of the stuff mentioned in the previous 6-9 posts help me communicate with my wife from 30-40 mi away if cell towers are down/overloaded?
    If that’s the case, 2 x $35 or so is well worth the investment and some time spent training with them.

    If not, is there another option for say, under $100 for two units that would get me that goal or better?
    Did you get an answer from any of the subsequent posts?
    I'm a licensed HAM, help run the weather station/RACES integration for my local EOC, and found a lot of that in the weeds.

    For me..... I have some great local repeater access, including two that have backup power. If my wife was 20 miles away, on the other side of a functioning repeater, we could communicate via HAM, using a simple handheld, by moving to high ground. If she was 20 miles behind me, 30 miles from the repeater, successful comms using a handheld would be much less likely through a repeater and nearly impossible via direct. You'd need higher power and a bigger antenna to reach 20 miles point-to-point, especially across not-flat terrain.

    Some interesting possible solutions is some of those posts.... I'm digesting it, slowly... learning some stuff. Thanks to those posters.
    "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." - Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776

  5. #95
    New Member schüler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    TX
    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbkr View Post


    Even on AM, if you put the effort into a proper install, it should outperform GMRS. SSB would do even better due to being more efficient than AM or FM, but it's still 4w and requires a large antenna....


    That's a bit overkill for anything that isn't mission critical and permanent. ...

    ...
    Re: Baofeng encryption and wideband freq transmit... it's not leftovers. It's business laziness and lax FCC enforcement.

    It is extra work to exclude frequencies and modes in firmware and stock two different models for export. FCC doesnt rigorously enforce it. Baofeng types have gotten heat about it but they lay low and come back in stock every time.

    Even the Yaesu FT-65R, a ham radio which uses the same radio-on-a-chip set as Baofengs, can be unlocked to wideband transmit via keypad. Not a mistake, they know they have to compete with Baofengs. Yaesu makes a much better RF design wrapped around that chipset.

    VHF mobile range in the real world terrain isn't 65mi, nor do most people use radios only at a summit or any other line of sight high point to get that range. I dont want to give false impressions of capability to those reading and learning.

    Caveat: I'm not interested in finessing max range under the most ideal conditions with minimal gear. I'm interested in being able to communicate when I need to, on demand. It is not a hobby. I have to know my real world limits and what I can legally do to push those limits in my favor.

    Clear communication between two 80 watt VHF car mobiles + 5/8 wave mag mount antennas locally = 8mi to 35mi range depending on topography of suburban sprawl to hilly piney woods.

    Same radios at homes with good antenna cable and a higher gain antenna that's high in the air is 40+mi reliably, often farther. Directional antennas help reach farther than that. And digital mode texting (requires computer hooked up to radio) goes way beyond that.

    I recommend as much power as you can get so both stations can hear each other if all else doesn't go your way. You can always turn the power down, but you can't add power you don't have.

    CB is 4 watts in normal AM mode, but 10-12 watts in SSB mode, same radio.

    Sent from my VS835 using Tapatalk

  6. #96
    Site Supporter
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Central Front Range, CO
    Thanks to all for the good info.
    I suspected that using handhelds for the purposes I described was probably a pipe dream.
    And it definitely seems like finding ways to ensure radio communication over distance in times when others may be doing the same would be an interesting challenge, but obviously a bit of a rabbit hole. Just what I need… Another rabbit hole.

  7. #97
    Site Supporter
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Quote Originally Posted by schüler View Post
    Re: Baofeng encryption and wideband freq transmit... it's not leftovers. It's business laziness and lax FCC enforcement.
    I was speaking specifically about the encryption element in DMR copycat radios, not the wideband transmit element.

    Quote Originally Posted by schüler View Post
    It is extra work to exclude frequencies and modes in firmware and stock two different models for export. FCC doesnt rigorously enforce it. Baofeng types have gotten heat about it but they lay low and come back in stock every time.

    Even the Yaesu FT-65R, a ham radio which uses the same radio-on-a-chip set as Baofengs, can be unlocked to wideband transmit via keypad. Not a mistake, they know they have to compete with Baofengs. Yaesu makes a much better RF design wrapped around that chipset.
    Yup. No argument there.

    Quote Originally Posted by schüler View Post
    VHF mobile range in the real world terrain isn't 65mi, nor do most people use radios only at a summit or any other line of sight high point to get that range. I dont want to give false impressions of capability to those reading and learning.
    I never said it was normal or everyday performance, just what I've done.

    Quote Originally Posted by schüler View Post
    Caveat: I'm not interested in finessing max range under the most ideal conditions with minimal gear. I'm interested in being able to communicate when I need to, on demand. It is not a hobby. I have to know my real world limits and what I can legally do to push those limits in my favor.
    That's cool. If I can do it with minimalist gear, I can do it easier with more power and gain. I know my real world limits because I'm doing this in a wide variety of environments. I brought up the summit stuff because most people thing handhelds are only good for repeaters or short distances.

    Quote Originally Posted by schüler View Post
    Clear communication between two 80 watt VHF car mobiles + 5/8 wave mag mount antennas locally = 8mi to 35mi range depending on topography of suburban sprawl to hilly piney woods.

    Same radios at homes with good antenna cable and a higher gain antenna that's high in the air is 40+mi reliably, often farther. Directional antennas help reach farther than that. And digital mode texting (requires computer hooked up to radio) goes way beyond that.

    I recommend as much power as you can get so both stations can hear each other if all else doesn't go your way. You can always turn the power down, but you can't add power you don't have.
    Yup. It's not really a secret. It's the same sort of thing I do in the field, just at lower power. An 80w mobile, power supply, and vertical antenna on the roof is easy enough, but to get beyond that performance-wise that takes investment and engineering.

    Quote Originally Posted by schüler View Post
    CB is 4 watts in normal AM mode, but 10-12 watts in SSB mode, same radio.
    Yup. I've never used SSB CB, only AM. I'm aware it exists, but that's about it.

    Chris

  8. #98
    Site Supporter ST911's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Midwest, USA
    Quote Originally Posted by LittleLebowski View Post
    The new Baofeng UV-S9 Plus is out for $51. Supposedly improved, of course I still don't know a damn thing about ham stuff.
    I grabbed one of these. Stuff in the box is a good starter kit, but... Supplied programming cable didn't work, my other cables did. In CHIRP, I used a UV-5R profile and it uploaded without error. Batteries (2) are unique to the model, not compatible with UV-5R. Speaker mic and earpiece are okay. Comes with a long antenna, glue on the bottom shield broke free when tightened down. Rubber ducky is normal. Haven't gotten it on a meter, but it isn't as clean as other Baofengs at peak, seemed okay at M and L power. Cleaner with several Nagoyas. Unknown what it's actually pushing, I perceive lower than advertised. Base nut on the antenna stud loosened and spun off each antenna removal. Overall, pretty "meh", better to stick with a UV-5R or a BF-F8HP and a decent antenna, those models also share accessories. I'll keep the UV-S9 and use it mostly as a monitor.

    @mtnbkr, FYI
    Last edited by ST911; 01-26-2021 at 10:50 PM.
    الدهون القاع الفتيات لك جعل العالم هزاز جولة الذهاب

  9. #99
    Based on knowledge gained from mtnbkr here, I achieved both my Technician and General Ham licenses in a few weeks (both easy exams) https://hamstudy.org/, and have purchased three radios since. The ability to communicate clearly over great distances using as little as 10 watts and a wire antenna is truly awe inspiring. I'm confident I could establish comms in an emergency and provide a resource to my neighborhood and community.

    For outdoor lovers and while ammo prices remain in low earth orbit, SOTA https://www.sota.org.uk/ has become the new pastime of choice, and a valuable survival skill. By establishing a predictable schedule and using a known frequency, I've been able to consistently talk to the same people many states away using a complete kit that weighs less than 2.5 Lbs.

    Also, I don't own Baofengs.

  10. #100
    Site Supporter
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Quote Originally Posted by ST911 View Post
    I grabbed one of these. Stuff in the box is a good starter kit, but... Supplied programming cable didn't work, my other cables did. In CHIRP, I used a UV-5R profile and it uploaded without error. Batteries (2) are unique to the model, not compatible with UV-5R. Speaker mic and earpiece are okay. Comes with a long antenna, glue on the bottom shield broke free when tightened down. Rubber ducky is normal. Haven't gotten it on a meter, but it isn't as clean as other Baofengs at peak, seemed okay at M and L power. Cleaner with several Nagoyas. Unknown what it's actually pushing, I perceive lower than advertised. Base nut on the antenna stud loosened and spun off each antenna removal. Overall, pretty "meh", better to stick with a UV-5R or a BF-F8HP and a decent antenna, those models also share accessories. I'll keep the UV-S9 and use it mostly as a monitor.

    @mtnbkr, FYI
    Disappointing, but not surprising. Baofeng continues to not take lessons from their earlier failures.

    If one wanted a good, yet relatively inexpensive radio, Wouxun seems to be ok. A buddy has one and uses it on SOTA activations, mainly for 220mhz. They're more expensive than Baofeng, but less than the Japanese radios, and seem solidly built.

    Chris

User Tag List

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •