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Thread: 10.5/11.5" SBRs/AR-15 pistols are okay for the average home defender

  1. #1

    10.5/11.5" SBRs/AR-15 pistols are okay for the average home defender

    This isn't a mockery of the thread @Jay Cunningham started yesterday about magwell holds, but it got me thinking about some other things.

    A 10.5/11.5" SBR or AR-15 pistol with a red dot and Surefire 6P are okay for the average home defender so if you don't have a 16" carbine with a 1-8 LPVO and M600/Cloud OWL/Modlite you'll probably be just fine. Discuss.

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  2. #2
    Member TGS's Avatar
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    What?
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  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by TGS View Post
    What?
    Barrel length for the purpose of a HD carbine. There was a poll in a FB gun group yesterday where a guy asked if he should get a 16" rifle for his only carbine, or go with one of the readily available 10.5/11.5"kits/uppers. Assuming both are of equal quality. The overwhelming majority said 16", but outside of not having to buy a brace or deal with NFA stuff nobody really gave an articulated reason as to why, similar to Jay's thread about the why of magwell holds not being optimal or ideal.

    Since pistol braces became a thing, many manufacturers and retailers have reported that sub 16" uppers sell at a rate of 2:1 over 16" uppers. I think I remember someone from PSA saying it's more like 4:1 but I could be remembering it wrong.

    Not wanting to spend $100 on a brace or $200 for a tax stamp are valid concerns, but they're personal preference and not really concrete data as to why a 16" rifle is a better choice.

  4. #4
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    Average home defender should probably just buy a 9mm duty sized pistol.


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  5. #5
    My preferred AR barrel length is 11.5”

    It’s all a compromise. I like handier ARs for HD and travel. I’ve got a Law Folder/SBA3 on my 11.5” BCM and can fold it up and stick it in a backpack if need be. I can also ring B/C steel out to 400 with no issue. Feed it good ammo and a 10.3-11.5” AR is fine for HD use. 10.3” ARs have been stacking bodies overseas for a long time.
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  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Friday View Post
    Barrel length for the purpose of a HD carbine. There was a poll in a FB gun group yesterday where a guy asked if he should get a 16" rifle for his only carbine, or go with one of the readily available 10.5/11.5"kits/uppers. Assuming both are of equal quality. The overwhelming majority said 16", but outside of not having to buy a brace or deal with NFA stuff nobody really gave an articulated reason as to why, similar to Jay's thread about the why of magwell holds not being optimal or ideal.

    Since pistol braces became a thing, many manufacturers and retailers have reported that sub 16" uppers sell at a rate of 2:1 over 16" uppers. I think I remember someone from PSA saying it's more like 4:1 but I could be remembering it wrong.

    Not wanting to spend $100 on a brace or $200 for a tax stamp are valid concerns, but they're personal preference and not really concrete data as to why a 16" rifle is a better choice.
    As I see it outside of running a suppressor or getting in and out of vehicles or confined spaces all the time I see zero reason to run a SBR or pistol (unless travel outside home state is a factor). I've cleared more buildings and rooms than I can count with a 14.5" and could run a 16" just the same, I learned to clear rooms with an M16 and I know I'm not the only one. We can skip the 10.5" altogether because they are often ammo sensitive and require a fair amount more of preventative maintenance and replacement parts intervals. 11.5's less so but you will still need more maintenance, (thought this won't be a factor for most I always look at the logistical/maintenance factors). Once you drop down to a 10.5/11.5" the pressure and noise inside a room or building is absolutely deafening so no way I'd run one without a suppressor which negates the advantage of a shorter barrel unless you're just looking to minimize hearing damage to yourself or others or need to increase the ability to communicate with others. Cost is obviously the additional factor as you mentioned, cost for SBR, cost for can or whatever you want to call them plus it's stamp and wait time. The juice just isn't worth the squeeze unless you regularly shoot somewhere that requires suppressors for shooting on Sundays for example, (like a club near me) or points made above. Just my .02 but that's how I see it. I like all the stuff I have but if I could go back and talk myself out of it I would have just bought 2-3 16" Colt trooper models or the like from BCM and called it done. Suppressors are fun but outside of hunting and fun I just don't see the real advantage at least for me, with that said a 9" 300 Blackout with a suppressor on it is stupid fun and sexy but absolutely not practical in any way no matter how much I wanted it to be.

    ETA: There is something to be said about the handling of an SBR as stated above but I really don't feel there is a tremendous amount of difference between my 11.5 Colt vs the 14.5 or 16" variants I have especially with the light weight rails available. Only real difference for me might be needing to adjust choke/tuck the gun when not pieing off a corner. Transitions aren't terribly different between targets whether spitting difference or longer ranges so long as there isn't a ton of crap hanging off the end of the gun.
    Last edited by Mike C; 09-11-2019 at 03:14 PM.

  7. #7
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    Right or wrong, I just put together an 8.5” barreled .300 BO pistol expressly for the wife to use in HD. The setting is a *very* rural / isolated abode (closest neighbor is a ways through the woods - no viz); LE many minutes away at best; no cell signal, but a landline is present; and a large house situated on a large chunk of property. There will be times when she is there alone for extended periods. She is on the small side and not winning any contests when it comes to physical strength. I need to step it off, but there is easily a 20 yard shot inside the residence and potentially one twice that. The single stack 9mm she has relied on to this point was simply not very confidence-inspiring with all these factors stacking up.

    Went .300BO because of the reliability at the 8.5” barrel length. Went 8.5” trying to put together the lightest weight, quickest handling package that I could.

    This package gives her the ability to do significant damage with increased stand-off distance as compared to the pistol; and with compative ease. Overpenetration is a largely a non-issue. She needed something that she could physically handle and get good hits - probably from a barricaded situation. The short AR pistol seems like a pretty good answer to that.

    All that said, I now think it prudent to attach a suppressor to the pistol because the concussion from the 8.5” barrel would be quite disconcerting to her inside say, a bedroom. I don’t want her to hesitate or flinch because of the anticipated concussion. One thing begets another...

  8. #8
    Gucci gear, Walmart skill Darth_Uno's Avatar
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    Weight's not an issue. You're not humping it around all day. For a home defender, you're just grabbing it out of your closet or wherever.

    Speed's not an issue. 3-gunners are rocking 18+" AR's just fine.

    And your average home defender isn't doing the NFA paperwork for a suppressor. If you can get a suppressor, 11.5/12.5 is the way to go. If you can't, like in IL, I'm not seeing much of a viable benefit to go under 14.5 besides looking fly.

    I know all our gun-fu is based on less-than-probable events to start with. But you can really overthink weight, handling, etc. I own 16's and 12.5's. My HD gun is a 14.5 pinned FH lightweight barrel BCM, with MRO. It's my mostest favoritest AR.
    Last edited by Darth_Uno; 09-11-2019 at 04:09 PM.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by MSparks909 View Post
    My preferred AR barrel length is 11.5”

    It’s all a compromise. I like handier ARs for HD and travel. I’ve got a Law Folder/SBA3 on my 11.5” BCM and can fold it up and stick it in a backpack if need be. I can also ring B/C steel out to 400 with no issue. Feed it good ammo and a 10.3-11.5” AR is fine for HD use. 10.3” ARs have been stacking bodies overseas for a long time.
    The ability to fold and fit into a normal sized backpack instead of those oblong purpose built rifle backpacks are one of the reasons I find an 11.5" to be the most practical. When I still kept my office space in town, I could hit the outdoor range on the way to work and not have to take my rifle/pistol back home before heading into work. It fit right into my Vertx Gamut Plus that I carried in and out of the office building everyday with my laptop in it and the other building tenants were none the wiser.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth_Uno View Post
    Weight's not an issue. You're not humping it around all day. For a home defender, you're just grabbing it out of your closet or wherever.

    Speed's not an issue. 3-gunners are rocking 18+" AR's just fine.

    And your average home defender isn't doing the NFA paperwork for a suppressor. If you can get a suppressor, 11.5/12.5 is the way to go. If you can't, like in IL, I'm not seeing much of a viable benefit to go under 14.5 besides looking fly.

    I know all our gun-fu is based on less-than-probable events to start with. But you can really overthink weight, handling, etc. I own 16's and 12.5's. My HD gun is a 14.5 pinned FH lightweight barrel BCM, with MRO. It's my mostest favoritest AR.
    Weight may or may not be an issue. I routinely take day hikes with one of my 11.5" guns slung over my shoulder, if I were a one carbine kinda guy having it be lightweight would be important. I see your point though, my HD 6933 is sporting a FSB and quad rail and is a pig compared to my other 11.5" with a 10" MCMR rail and a BCM ELW profile barrel.

    I have 16" guns as well. They mostly gather dust as I find that an 11.5" does everything I need a carbine to do with the advantage of being easier to transport.

  10. #10
    Gucci gear, Walmart skill Darth_Uno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Friday View Post



    Weight may or may not be an issue. I routinely take day hikes with one of my 11.5" guns slung over my shoulder, if I were a one carbine kinda guy having it be lightweight would be important. I see your point though, my HD 6933 is sporting a FSB and quad rail and is a pig compared to my other 11.5" with a 10" MCMR rail and a BCM ELW profile barrel.

    I have 16" guns as well. They mostly gather dust as I find that an 11.5" does everything I need a carbine to do with the advantage of being easier to transport.
    The question was for home defense. I get your point though. The SBA3 isn't my favorite stock, er I mean 'brace', but if I had to hustle a weapon around for hours I'd go with my pistol build just because it's lighter. For something you might only (or never) use for a couple minutes, weight's not as much of a concern. For that matter nobody's saying a basic AK isn't good for HD, and those aren't exactly light either.

    Joe Schmuckatelli can have a 16" Govt profile barrel, carbine gas, ACOG, and use a magwell grip and be just fine. I could probably debate with him why those aren't the best options...but I won't unless he asks.
    Last edited by Darth_Uno; 09-11-2019 at 05:16 PM.

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