This is my HD carbine.
This is my HD carbine.
No need to apologize. You brought up some good points pertinent to the discussion, albeit with a bit of hyperbole. There's a lot of ground between "what's ok" or "you can make it work" and "ideal". An M1 Garand for use at close quarters falls squarely in the "you can make it work" with the "if you have to" addendum attached. A 20 inch AR is "what's ok" and is a couple of Zip codes closer to "ideal" than the Garand.Originally Posted by BK14
However, things get a little fuzzier comparing a 16/14.5 inch AR to an 11.5/10.5 inch. Both are closer to ideal than a 20 incher. The shorties are closer to ideal than you give it credit and I would argue that it is just as ideal as the 16/14.5- more so (for my uses) when using a suppressor. Shorties are shorter unsuppressed (with more muzzle blast) and about the same length muffled and significantly quieter. Shorties, with their recent boom in popularity, have become much more refined than they were before. With that refinement comes good reliability and much improved durability. Even the 10.5 now has boring reliability. I've put a lot of rounds through my shorties in the years I've owned them. With the exception of being harder on extractor springs, they've been as trouble free as my longer ARs.
That may not be due to sharper recoil. Recoil with my shorties is no sharper than my 14.5 Colt SOCOM because they have proper gas porting, H2 buffers and good recoil springs. However, longer barrels smooth out the swing. The longer barrel usually has more moment (more leverage), slowing down directional changes. This means your muzzle travels less during recoil, decreasing shot dispersion and allows you to get back on target quicker.The only short barrels I’ve shot were properly gassed 10.3/11.5 Daniels, and my 11.5 BCM also with a sprinco blue and H2 buffer. The longer guns include a properly gassed 14.5 BCM with H2 buffer, a Faxon 16” middy which feels a bit over gassed, and even a PSA piece of crap 16” middy. Whether I’m running a staged course of fire, a bill drill, etc. I can feel and see my groups open up between the shorter guns vs longer guns when I’m running the trigger at similar splits.
Obviously your experience may be totally different, but when I’ve put shorter vs longer guns on the clock, I can control longer ones better.
All of this does not mean I argue against the longer ARs. It means I'm arguing for the shorties. I think shorties are as viable an option as the 14.5/16 inch ARs. More so for the average under achiever home owner than a Garand or double barreled shotgun, if you'll forgive the hyperbole
Last edited by MistWolf; 11-03-2019 at 12:12 PM.
We wish to thank the United Network Command for Law and Enforcement, without whose assistance this program would not have been possible.
Keymod, 20 rd mag, and your stock isn't even all the way out. How dare you.
This is my HD carbine.
Did you see where Jay has his front sight?!?
We wish to thank the United Network Command for Law and Enforcement, without whose assistance this program would not have been possible.
Yes, and coincidentally that’s where I have mine as well.
“There is no growth in the comfort zone.”--Jocko Willink
"You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
I have my front sight behind the pressure switch as well.
Light activation and hand placement>front sight location
Another reason is I use a 30mm Aimpoint Pro. With a c clamp grip and my thumb on top of the pressure switch, I can see my big fat thumb knuckle through the optic if the front sight is in front of the pressure switch. It's not like that really obscures anything, but I prefer to just see the dot and the front sight.
My HD setup, 11.5” BCM lightweight fluted.
“There is no growth in the comfort zone.”--Jocko Willink
"You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
No need to apologize. You brought up some good points pertinent to the discussion, albeit with a bit of hyperbole. There's a lot of ground between "what's ok" or "you can make it work" and "ideal". An M1 Garand for use at close quarters falls squarely in the "you can make it work" with the "if you have to" addendum attached. A 20 inch AR is "what's ok" and is a couple of Zip codes closer to "ideal" than the Garand.
However, things get a little fuzzier comparing a 16/14.5 inch AR to an 11.5/10.5 inch. Both are closer to ideal than a 20 incher. The shorties are closer to ideal than you give it credit and I would argue that it is just as ideal as the 16/14.5- more so (for my uses) when using a suppressor. Shorties are shorter unsuppressed (with more muzzle blast) and about the same length muffled and significantly quieter. Shorties, with their recent boom in popularity, have become much more refined than they were before. With that refinement comes good reliability and much improved durability. Even the 10.5 now has boring reliability. I've put a lot of rounds through my shorties in the years I've owned them. With the exception of being harder on extractor springs, they've been as trouble free as my longer ARs.
That may not be due to sharper recoil. Recoil with my shorties is no sharper than my 14.5 Colt SOCOM because they have proper gas porting, H2 buffers and good recoil springs. However, longer barrels smooth out the swing. The longer barrel usually has more moment (more leverage), slowing down directional changes. This means your muzzle travels less during recoil, decreasing shot dispersion and allows you to get back on target quicker.
All of this does not mean I argue against the longer ARs. It means I'm arguing for the shorties. I think shorties are as viable an option as the 14.5/16 inch ARs. More so for the average under achiever home owner than a Garand or double barreled shotgun, if you'll forgive the hyperbole
For the record, my current patrol rifle is the previously mentioned 11.5, but I’m switching over to my 14.5. Not because of any issues with the 11.5, but because I want to make the 11.5 more specialized than i prefer my patrol rifles. I have no problem with shorties, I think they’re great, I think 14.5/16” guns are great too.
I’ve been trying to figure out what it is about the recoil impulse that’s different for me between a shorty and a 14.5/16” middie but I can’t articulate it yet. Other guys I work with have the same opinion, but it’s hard to articulate.
Either way, I guess now that I’m on a full nights sleep, I’ll say that an 11.5” AR pistol is okay for the average home defense user. Maybe even ideal.
MLOK is superior to KeyMod.
But not enough for me to mess with my carbine.
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