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Thread: Is the ACOG dead?

  1. #1
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    Is the ACOG dead?

    I watched when ACOG was the only thing worth having if you wanted durable magnification on a fighting gun.
    Then it became NXS and SB 1-4's on QD mounts with irons backing them up.
    Now it is 1-8's hardmounted, with offset T2s and RMRs.

    Which brings me back to the ACOG...if 4x is enough for your AO, is the acog+offset t2 a better path than a LPVO? Most of the competition shooters I've watched simply roll the gun for those stages rather than throw the lever on the lpvo, effectively turning it into a fixed mag sight.

    The acog is tough, and weights in at a whopping <14oz WITH mount. A t2 in an offset is about 5oz. Mounted up, on the gun, this is a 19oz combo. That is shaving over half a pound off of a Razor-E in a 6oz mount...

  2. #2
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    ACOG's are great. But the eye relief sucks balls. The only ones that I actually like, are not the the popular models (TA33 is absolutely fantastic, and TA11 is also great).

    My 1-4 Accupoint does everything the TA31/TA01 does, but better I think. I keep it in 1x for patrol use, and if needed, I can bump it up to 4x. Unlike the ACOG, which is great for medium engagements, but not great close. My 1x Accupoint in a 1.93 mount I can run just as fast as my MRO or Eotech (even in odd positions, as the eye relief is just fantastic). You just can't do that with an ACOG.

    Just depends on what you do primarily. Most people need a 1x alot more than they need a 4x (or 6x or 8x). Most 1-4/6/8s are cheaper than the ACOG as well, so that doesn't help.

  3. #3
    Site Supporter Condition Write's Avatar
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    My TA44 does what no red dot has ever done: gives me a clearly-defined reticle instead of a glowing amoeba. Whether it's the LASIK scarring or the astigmatism coming back, the 1.5x ACOG is the best hardware fix I've found for that. But I am frequently a fringe case.
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  4. #4
    Yep, when a $300 1-8x vortex can do everything and more, time to hang it up.
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  5. #5
    Never saw the draw to a fixed power optic on a rifle that is destined for any close up work. I know there are work around like closing the front cap and shooting both eyes open, but that is nowhere near what I want to do. Yes, I would agree the ACOG is basically dead.

  6. #6
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    One of my Soldiers managed to drop his M249 ACOG-side down on asphalt. The ACOG was scuffed up but the glass was fine and it worked just fine.
    I haven't seen any other optic that routinely survives similar abuse.

    I do agree about the eye relief though - the TA11's are my favorite for that reason.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by JRB View Post
    One of my Soldiers managed to drop his M249 ACOG-side down on asphalt. The ACOG was scuffed up but the glass was fine and it worked just fine.
    I haven't seen any other optic that routinely survives similar abuse.

    I do agree about the eye relief though - the TA11's are my favorite for that reason.
    Agreed, I've seen ACOG's take shit on deployments I don't know any other optic could survive. To add, Condition Write has a good point about the clarity of the TA44 for people with issues like he has but it's not quite the comparison of variable to fixed 4x's or the like. gskip has got a point as well and I believe F2S or maybe Kevin B. has also made similar comments about the 4X's. Their experience mirrors mine and the magnification for the 4X is too great to be useful across the spectrum without degradation at closer ranges. The 3X and 3.5X models do not affect my shooting at close proximity like the 4X model does but is still not ideal and IMHO after spending some good time with a variable and a 3X Acog side by side variable wins. hands down.

    If I was just looking to keep weight down and have a simple setup or needed something to give JOE that he can't break easily and is stupid simple to use I could still see using a 3x/3.5x model but for the cost you do get some awesome options in the variable optics market. Trade off is weight but that is a small price to pay because with the ACOG you're stuck to the BDC reticle, the eye relief and price point. Personally I was hesitant with the weight trade off on the NX8 and the cost but I am a believer now. A good variable optic with etched reticle, daylight visible dot and a first focal plane crushes the shit out of an ACOG, especially when you have something with Mil/Mil. While there is some viability for ACOG's for front line grunts to keep shit simple I think for everyone else, civilian, gamers, law enforcement and applications outside team level (thinking SDM's or Sniper teams) the ACOG is absolutely dead. I never thought anything could crush my love for these sights but NF has ruined me completely.

    To sum up see @voodoo_man's post.
    Last edited by Mike C; 09-11-2019 at 10:11 AM.

  8. #8
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    No theyíre not dead, Our boys in uniform that will go out and actually stack bodies will still be toting ACOGs. They arenít the greatest thing since sliced bread anymore, pretty far from ideal, but what kind of gun industry would we have if they werenít pushing new toys you didnít need life saving equipment that will save you from getting kilt on da streets.

    If youíre looking for something new and you donít need the durability of the ACOG, there are plenty of better priced options out there. If you already have an ACOG thereís no reason to think you need a better mousetrap.
    Whether you think you can or you can't, you're probably right.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike C View Post
    Agreed, I've seen ACOG's take shit on deployments I don't know any other optic could survive. To add, Condition Write has a good point about the clarity of the TA44 for people with issues like he has but it's not quite the comparison of variable to fixed 4x's or the like. gskip has got a point as well and I believe F2S or maybe Kevin B. has also made similar comments about the 4X's. Their experience mirrors mine and the magnification for the 4X is too great to be useful across the spectrum without degradation at closer ranges. The 3X and 3.5X models do not affect my shooting at close proximity like the 4X model does but is still not ideal and IMHO after spending some good time with a variable and a 3X Acog side by side variable wins. hands down.

    If I was just looking to keep weight down and have a simple setup or needed something to give JOE that he can't break easily and is stupid simple to use I could still see using a 3x/3.5x model but for the cost you do get some awesome options in the variable optics market. Trade off is weight but that is a small price to pay because with the ACOG you're stuck to the BDC reticle, the eye relief and price point. Personally I was hesitant with the weight trade off on the NX8 and the cost but I am a believer now. A good variable optic with etched reticle, daylight visible dot and a first focal plane crushes the shit out of an ACOG, especially when you have something with Mil/Mil. While there is some viability for ACOG's for front line grunts to keep shit simple I think for everyone else, civilian, gamers, law enforcement and applications outside team level (thinking SDM's or Sniper teams) the ACOG is absolutely dead. I never thought anything could crush my love for these sights but NF has ruined me completely.

    To sum up see @voodoo_man's post.
    That is a well thought out perspective, and in the game of true optimization there is no doubt that many current options beat the heck out of the ACOG. But the ACOG is not limited to the BDC reticle - Primary Arms offers the TA01 style ACOG with an ACSS reticle, they haven't yet done a TA11 which my wallet is thankful for.

    But we should discuss the mission and typical UoF continuum in place in a combat environment vs a civilian or LE environment. With a 3-4x ACOG you're losing precision at 400+M for sure. But the ACOG shines on a typical sloppy M4/M16, and typical lots of M855/M855A1 ammo, and an RoE that does not fuss about repeated follow up shots until you make that hit. An NX8's primary advantages would be wasted on most M4's and M16's and with most lots of M855 or M855A1, though it would offer the higher magnification and observation abilities inherent to good glass at higher magnification.

    On the other hand, an NX8 on a well-kept free-floated AR with a good barrel and loaded with much better ammo would be far more ideal in a Civ or LE situation where there's a great emphasis on first-shot precision and minimal shot count. It would similarly be superior in most competitions/matches as those typically have fixed shot counts and the emphasis is on precision and speed without the ammo and weapon limitations of true off-the-rack military rifles.

    Long story short - whenever I manage to afford a $2500 AR build of some kind, or plunk down the money on an HK, KAC, or LaRue, it's not going to wear an ACOG. But for an LE6921 upper with a P&W muzzle device on an AR build that gets fed shitty ammo and rides my muscle memory on M4/M16's, it's the perfect choice.

  10. #10
    We are shortly going to be getting the Squad Common Optic in the Marine Rifle Squads which is going to be a 1 to 6/8 powered ffp option from.....? Most of the Major brands are participating in the testing. Right now testing is ongoing at MARFORSYSCOM and hopefully it will be soon that they start production and units receive them..... All of these will be mounted on M27's as we pure fleet those to the Infantry units....

    I like the ACOG / RCO and we are all issued them right now. As a Infantry optic it is not bad however it has some issues to include night shooting if not wanting to emit IR spectum energy, gas mask integration, slowing down room clearing speed somewhat. It also has a tendency to suck guys into the optic to look at things resulting in a net loss of overall situational awareness. The last one will still be a problem for a lpvo. All of the rest are issues that can be trained around or honestly are not thought about that much as the org doesn't know what it doesn't know.....

    The new SCO will help with all of these as well as require increased training time at first, hopefully we will get the high mounts that we have asked for as well. Battery life is going also be a real issue at first as well as the GPF Marine Corps has very little institutional experience with having to religiously change batteries in optics.....

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