In 2019 weapon lights are mandatory....convince me otherwise

[BehindBlueI's]

Lengthy conversation on the topic here: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....on-CCW-Pistols

From that thread and others on the topic:

I carry two handhelds and no WML on duty (plain clothes) and one handheld and zero WML off duty. I've yet to feel the lack. Like anything, they have their pro's and con's but most of the pro's are for searching. If we assume you aren't going looking for trouble, there's very very very few realistic scenarios were you are accosted by someone and the light is too poor for target identification and location. If someone is going to rob you, it's going to be close enough to interact with you. If someone is going to attempt to rape you, they are going to be close enough to interact with you, etc. I suppose we could cook up some active shooter scenario in a blackout at the local Wally-world...but even then I think I'd like my handheld better.

...
People don't get victimized in completely dark stairwells at distances. They get victimized in places with enough ambient light for the suspect to target them and by people close enough to victimize them.

Nothing wrong with a WML if you want one. A separate and distinct light source is more flexible, though, and much more likely to be useful.

Right. Because that's what the real world has shown us. Between my personal case files and Givens' studies we've got at least 200 shootings of criminal actors, zero of which required a WML. If you don't mind the inclusion of criminal on criminal shootings, I can easily approach 1k shootings where neither side had or needed a WML. The situations where people are victimized simply don't lend themselves to needing one....that's not where random victim crime is occurring. Bad guys do at least rudimentary victim selection, they hang out where people are, and people tend to not hang out in places it's so dark you can't see what someone is carrying. As stated, you can come up with many hypothetical scenarios where this is true. The absolute closest I can think of in any of my cases is a group of robbers hanging out in a dark alley that a "Pokemon" lived in and robbing the Pokemon hunters that came down the alley at oh-dark-thirty. Do you need to see what's in the hands of someone committing the forcible felony of robbery to use lethal force to stop the forcible felony? Certainly not in my state.

The "what's in his hands" issue in a vacuum of a hypothetical doesn't really equate with how things play out in reality. Nobody just walks up and points a random object at a passerby. They verbalize intent when they make threats, demand property, etc. They may impede movement in some fashion, generally by proximity and threat, but sometimes by physical assault or blocking of exits. All of the things that would play in to if a furtive movement shooting is legally justified apply equally here.

[Robinson]

Nightstand gun...yes.

EDC...no.

What he said.

The thread linked above has some good discussion of the topic.

[JBP55]

So what is the point of the WML?

Not to point it at anyone unless they are a threat. I have seen too many LEO point a pistol at people in a car at night using the WML.

[Jay Cunningham]

Not to point it at anyone unless they are a threat. I have seen too many LEO point a pistol at people in a car at night using the WML.

So who do you point it at?

[RevolverRob]

I don't have the data of BBI, but from my files I have approximately 50 muggings/assaults that have occurred within my neighborhood. If I just isolate the ones after dark (N=12), the victims had no problem identifying age/race/actions of their attackers, unless they were ambushed directly from behind (N=2). The majority of mugging incidents here actually occurred during rush hours (morning and evening).

Weapon light goes on the gun on the nightstand. Long-guns have weapon lights on them.

When I carry a gun on my person, a hand-held light in my pocket. Usually a Four-Sevens Quark with the two mode head.

[Screwball]

I’m going to see if I can do the training in the next month or so, as I want to get a whole new gun belt... and would be easier to do just get a new holster that takes a light (and when we switch to Glocks, another for that).

In regards to off duty, I tend to carry a light more times than I don’t. Currently, S&W 642-1 in 9mm... with LaserMax weapon light. I don’t use it for searching. However, if the gun is out, I want to see the target as best as I can. Weapon mounted light works well in that role.

A lot of people make it seem like it is one or the other; handheld or weapon light. Can do both... which is what I do. With how small/light weapon lights are today, there isn’t a real negative shy of holster availability.

[JBP55]

So who do you point it at?

No one unless they are a threat.

[Pistol Pete 10]

Title says it all. Tech has evolved. Kydex is everywhere for about anything you want.

I’m 50/50 in the daily carry of a weapon light. Ive Used both handheld and weapon lights in the shoot house/FOF

I fully understand weapon lights are not admin or general search tools and I always have a handheld with ringring/lanyard. That said I’d much rather point a gun with a light at something, asses it is not a threat and stop pointing my gun at it than to proceed in the darkness of no PID

For sure....it will get dark before you’re in a known safe area so, discuss


If your pistol has a rail - for you - is a weapon light mandatory ?

Always shoot at the light, flashlight, cigarette, muzzle flash, always shoot at the light.

[CCT125US]

Recently went back to the P30, so each night the WML gets added. With camping season coming to an end for the family, my perceived usefulness of one outside of the house is now greatly diminished. I do think before next season starts, I'll pick up a Phlster Floodlight and use that while camping. But other than that, I will use the SF EDCL2T.

[JSGlock34]

I’m 50/50 in the daily carry of a weapon light.

If I recall you were a fan of the Keeper; what holster are you using with a weapon light?