Knife & Pistol Employment Question - Benchmade SOCP

[secondstoryguy]

I have played with one of these (training version)in hands-on FOF training. They work for their intended purpose, specifically to get someone the hell off you and transition to a weapon without having to deal(put away or throw down)with the knife after using it. Although I train to grab my knife with my non-dominant hand leaving my dominant hand for my pistol, you don't always get to make that choice and this is the problem this knife solves. I believe knives(especially fixed blade) in general can be a great complimentary tool to a handgun. Sometimes a knife is a much better tool than a pistol for getting out of a clutch/tie up situation. I like that the SOCP has a clip and is versatile as far as where you can carry it. The ring/hole in the knife is a little hard to hit in a fast and furious attack but it works and shooting with it in the hand isn't that bad. My main complaint with it is the clip is too "slick" and doesn't always catch on what you clip it too. They need to add a clip like the guy at Bladerigs (http://www.bladerigs.com/)puts in his sheaths which has a small catch on the clip anchoring it to what it's clipped to. Overall, I like my Clinch pick more for this kind of thing as it's quicker to get into action as well as being legal in most states. If I was overseas and going unannounced into a lot of houses I might have a SOCP knife on my plate carrier.

[Wondering Beard]

Caveat, I'm no SME on knives, knife fighting, transitions to and fro from and gun etc ..

The concept as Kimura put it is essentially sound as I understand it. The idea of being able to transition, depending on time and distance, between knife and gun (especially from a knife "get off me" position to one where "fire and maneuver", for lack of a better expression, is more practical) is good.

The 'How' is something that is nowhere near as studied, and thus has nowhere near the established techniques, as it could be.

For these transitions, I have found (through personal practice and study only) that having a ring at the bottom of the grip is really helpful as you can hang on to your knife as you use another tool (or need your hands to do something else).

Personally, I like using a karambit in forward grip for these purposes. I'm no expert on all the fine twirling and spinning and passing techniques of that knife; to me it's a claw and I use it like that. Still, with the little finger of my left hand through the ring (I'm a right handed pistol shooter), I find that if I just open my left hand, let the knife dangle from my pinky, and go for my pistol, I can draw and shoot two handed with nearly the same efficiency as without the knife in hand, I can reload pretty smoothly and I can go back to using the knife with little difficulty.

From "get off me" to engaging with a gun, a knife with a ring in the handle offers a lot of practical possibilities.

[Ed L]

Thanks, guys.

It looks like an interesting knife in that you could be wearing it in an inside the pants sheath with just the ring sticking out above the belt. Most people wouldn't recognize it as a knife.

I can certainly see the value of it as a close range knife that can be easily accessed, but was unsure about integrating it into use with a handgun.

Is the knife double edged?

[rob_s]

ed, I thought the exact same thing and bought it because of that, but at least in my case what I found was that having only the ring sticking up above the beltline meant way to much poking me below the beltline. I tried it appendix carry strong and weak side, with the point facing in both directions, for a total of 4 carry position/orientations and couldn't find a single one that I could live with. Some have suggested having a traditional sheath made for it with more of the handle sticking out but if I was going that route I'd probably just buy a traditional knife.

It is sharp on both sides, but only about 1/3-1/2 of the way back from the tip.

[Ed L]

Thanks for your first hand appraisal, Rob.

Also, as a double edged knife it is illegal to carry in TX. The knife that is the subject of this thread would be classified as a dirk or stiletto. I don't remember the exact classification or level of illegality, but it could result in loosing my carry permit or even the loss of the ability to legally buy firearms.

So much for thoughts I had about carrying that knife.

[will_1400]

I read on another thread that one forum member's wife carries a Benchmade SOCP fixed blade dagger and likes it. I have read other good reviews of it in certain applications, and I am happy with other Benchmade knives that I have bought. However, when I looked at their suggested way to draw and hold the knife in conjunction with a pistol, it seems crazy to me. I am still a novice with a pistol and even less experienced with knife fighting, but I don't see the logic in this example:

http://www.benchmade.com/Images/Pr/P...le_Extract.Pdf

I suppose they think that this would be a good way to switch to your knife when you run out of ammo in your pistol. Do they assume you won't have a second magazine? If you do have one, this seems like a great way to stab yourself in your weak hand during a reload.

Am I missing something?

Naked Snake called: he wants royalties for his idea...

[JodyH]

I'm not a fan of juggling and shooting.
Whether it's a flashlight or a knife I'm trying to utilize while shooting I prefer to separate things and shoot one handed and manipulate with the other hand.
If I have to cut someone off me to make space, I'll do that then drop the knife and go to the gun.
I just don't see any advantage in trying to hang on to everything.
And that knife sticking out the bottom of the gun looks like trouble if you "autopilot" into a immediate action malfunction clearance or reload.
There are numerous cases of people getting into shootings and reloading with no conscious thought.
Bad mojo with that spike sticking out the bottom of your gun.

[37th Mass]

Thanks for the replies folks. I still find aspects of the knife appealing for other reasons, but I don't think I will employ that 'knife & gun in same hand' tactic. At least not unless I can get some high speed/low drag knife training…

[SGT_Calle]

Something about the knife drew me in as well. I'm a benchmade fan and carry an auto daily. I jumped on this one mostly out of cool-factor and some sort of interest I can't put my finger on.
I wear mine in uniform (ACUs) almost daily, weak side appendix. I just think its a very interesting knife

[F-Trooper05]

Looks like Soldiersystems was following this thread...

http://soldiersystems.net/2012/04/16...into-action-2/