Knife & Pistol Employment Question - Benchmade SOCP

[37th Mass]

I read on another thread that one forum member's wife carries a Benchmade SOCP fixed blade dagger and likes it. I have read other good reviews of it in certain applications, and I am happy with other Benchmade knives that I have bought. However, when I looked at their suggested way to draw and hold the knife in conjunction with a pistol, it seems crazy to me. I am still a novice with a pistol and even less experienced with knife fighting, but I don't see the logic in this example:

http://www.benchmade.com/Images/Pr/P...le_Extract.Pdf

I suppose they think that this would be a good way to switch to your knife when you run out of ammo in your pistol. Do they assume you won't have a second magazine? If you do have one, this seems like a great way to stab yourself in your weak hand during a reload.

Am I missing something?

[Chuck Haggard]

That is one of the very most F'd up things I have seen in awhile.

Falls somewhere between drum set and full retard.

[Ed L]

The knife was designed by Gregg Thompson who is a Black belt in BJJ and several other arts and is an MMA instructor who is involved with the Army's Special Operations Combatives Program http://www.ussocp.com/

Now, I'm not that much of a knife guy, but going by the pictures of holding the knife while employing the pistol, a few things stick in my head:

1. If you are needing to transition to or draw your sidearm, it would greatly slow up getting the gun into actiion to draw the knife first, if that is what they are suggesting.

2. Holding even a slim knife in your hand with your dominant hand is going to alter your grip on the handgun and ability to reach the trigger and likely throw off your shooting.

3. I'm not sure how you reload the gun with a knife sticking out of the bottom of your gun hand without stabbing yourself in the hand presenting the magazine to the magazine well.

The answer to this may be something simple and obvious that I don't understand.

[Shadow2]

I can see that as a good last ditch knife or a good knife to hide on your vest. Something that you can have your hand on while talking to people. For example, My last tour in Astan we dealt with a lot of local farmers and spent a lot of time in NDS, ANA, ANP compounds and government offices. Despite my heated objections having my hand on my rifle, pistol or knife were frowned upon. So while everybody saw me not having my hands on my rifle, pistol or large strider on my belt. They never saw my M.O.B FOS with 5 inch blade that hid underneath my plate carrier about centerline. So in that capacity I see this knife being useful. But definitely not in conjunction with a hand gat.

[JRL]

Perhaps this is a good example of something that can be done, but should not be done?

[Kimura]

I read on another thread that one forum member's wife carries a Benchmade SOCP fixed blade dagger and likes it. I have read other good reviews of it in certain applications, and I am happy with other Benchmade knives that I have bought. However, when I looked at their suggested way to draw and hold the knife in conjunction with a pistol, it seems crazy to me. I am still a novice with a pistol and even less experienced with knife fighting, but I don't see the logic in this example:

http://www.benchmade.com/Images/Pr/P...le_Extract.Pdf

I suppose they think that this would be a good way to switch to your knife when you run out of ammo in your pistol. Do they assume you won't have a second magazine? If you do have one, this seems like a great way to stab yourself in your weak hand during a reload.

Am I missing something?

Yeah, I think what you're missing is that the knife is deployed prior to the gun because of a close threat. It's used to make space, dispatch a foe etc. It saves time to go straight to the handgun with the knife still in your hand. If the knife has a small enough grip, I think the interference with how your grip your handgun will be minimal and, more to the point, the other options take longer than you may have in a CQB situation. I'm guessing and though I've never trained with this particular individual, this is what makes the most sense to me. Two things; since I'm guessing this is for time saving in a CQB situation, the distances would be relatively short, in a building with rooms let's say, so balancing grip vs time tells me that grip can be slightly sacrificed at relatively short room sized distances and still make good hits on target. Second, I don't believe reloads apply to this as it looks like a quick dispatch situation where you're dealing with the immediacy of this threat and the possibility of another happening quickly, if that makes sense,

Again, I'm guessing, but this is what makes the most sense to me.

[Al T.]

Kimura, I think you've hit the nail on the head. But. If I'm in a fur ball with multiple close in bad guys, I'm probably more concerned with getting my long distance hole puncher secured and making noise. When I was over seas and working with the locals, my fixed blade was accessible on the opposite side of my M9.

[JeffJ]

I've admittedly not given this much thought and have not BTDT, nor am I a ninja - but, I'm thinking that if I'm in a situation that is so F'd up that I can't get to my pistol and go to knife first then try to transition to pistol that I'll probably just drop the knife. It seems like a very remote situation to develop hardware and technique for - if you are that clsoe and nasty and possibly shooting from retention or ending up wrestling around it looks like a great way to stab yourself.

[WDW]

That looks like an ass ended version of the Laserlyte pistol bayonet. IMHO, that seems like a horribly stupid idea. If you wanna carry a gun, carry a gun. If you want a knife, carry a knife. If you want both, carry both. But don't carry a gun-knife.

[rob_s]

The SOCP is intended to get someone off of you when you can't get to your gun. What the graphic is showing is exactly as Kimura describes, which is two separate processes. First draw the SOCP and use it to "make space" and then draw your pistol if it's still needed. Is it less-than-ideal when it comes time to change mags? yes, but it's simply A option, not THE way. All they are showing is that if you do have the SOCP in your hand and need to go for your pistol it can be done with minimal interference, unlike a knife with a traditional handle.