my ideas for gun control

[Cypher]

I agree with you. Killings with long guns, and especially those that meet the definition of "mass shooting," are quite rare.

That doesn't address the fact that Suzy Doesn'tGiveAShitAboutYourRKBA is a) sick and tired of wondering whether her kids are going to get shot at school given the wall-to-wall coverage which exaggerates the frequency of these tragedies and b) willing to vote in a way which will have dramatic consequences for our rights and sees our side as having no credible alternative solution.

I posted this in another place but it's just as applicable here

The biggest mistake the pro Second Amendment side makes is believing that any compromise is possible with the antis.

I'm sorry if this sounds like conspiracy theory insanity but they want nothing less than total civilian disarmament. Maybe not the rank-and-file maybe not the soccer moms posting on Facebook but the people behind the movement the people who are funding the movement want you disarmed.

So it doesn't matter what we compromise on or what we concede, they want all of our guns and we need to quit pretending that's not the goal. And in my opinion we need to adopt a not one inch policy.

[ssb]

I posted this in another place but it's just as applicable here

The biggest mistake the pro Second Amendment side makes is believing that any compromise is possible with the antis.

I'm sorry if this sounds like conspiracy theory insanity but they want nothing less than total civilian disarmament. Maybe not the rank-and-file maybe not the soccer moms posting on Facebook but the people behind the movement the people who are funding the movement want you disarmed.

So it doesn't matter what we compromise on or what we concede, they want all of our guns and we need to quit pretending that's not the goal. And in my opinion we need to adopt a not one inch policy.

I agree that "compromising" - in the form of AWBs, UBCs, etc. - has gotten us nowhere. The downward spirals that are Washington and Oregon are two pertinent examples. I disagree that "not one inch" will sustain us over the long term. In my view, unless we have a credible policy alternative, we'll simply continue the slide into social leprosy that we're on. In case you didn't notice, Wal Mart now treats us as if we're damaged goods that are bad for their bottom line. Wal Mart.

You still haven't answered my question, which was: is there any policy that can be proposed which will have a positive effect on the mass shooting problem while also not trampling on our rights?

My question was not "which guns can we agree to ban to get Everytown For Gun Safety to go away?" and should not be interpreted as such.

[Cypher]

You still haven't answered my question, which was: is there any policy that can be proposed which will have a positive effect on the mass shooting problem while also not trampling on our rights?

You might as well ask "Is there a policy that will stop random lightning strikes?" There's not a policy in the world that's going to stop random maniacs from committing random acts of violence.

Are you aware that more people are beaten to death with bare hands than die in mass shootings every year?

Mass shootings aren't the problem.

[Drang]

These "ideas" aren't working in places where they use them now, what makes you think doing them even harder will magically make all the bad people stop being bad?

Also:

The fundamental problem with gun statues is the fact any crime one commits with a firearm is already a capital offense.

I don't think "capital offense" means what you think it means.

[ssb]

Mass shootings aren't the problem.

They are absolutely a problem because every single one of them that occurs adds to the momentum that is currently building against my right to armed self-defense. Dismiss that at your (and my) peril.

By the way, you can skip the condescension: I'm well aware that there weren't actually 9000 mass shootings last year and I'm also well aware that FBI UCR data shows about 3-400 homicides per year committed with rifles.

[Cypher]

They are absolutely a problem because every single one of them that occurs adds to the momentum that is currently building against my right to armed self-defense. Dismiss that at your (and my) peril.

And that goes back to what I said earlier. If you could wave a magic wand and make mass shootings stop completely the other side still wants you disarmed. There is nothing that you were going to say that is going to appease them.

The best that you can do is to (for lack of a better term) win the hearts and minds of the fence sitters so that they see that scary black guns aren't the problem.

Listen, and understand! That Grabber is out there! It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely. will. not. stop. until you are disarmed.

[ssb]

And that goes back to what I said earlier. If you could wave a magic wand and make mass shootings stop completely the other side still wants you disarmed. There is nothing that you were going to say that is going to appease them.

The best that you can do is 2 for lack of a better term win the hearts and minds of the fence sitters so that they see that scary black guns aren't the problem.

Listen, and understand! That Grabber is out there! It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely. will. not. stop. until you are disarmed.

Once more, for the cheap seats...

Addressing the problem of mass shootings does not necessarily equate to mandatory buybacks of black rifles and normal magazines, giving up HIPPA protection to buy a gun, making it a felony to borrow my dad's gun for a hunting trip, or really even engaging "The Grabber." You'll note that I've not once proposed appeasing "The Grabber," nor did I limit my question to gun control measures. You have shown us on the doll where Dianne Feinstein touched you. Now that that part's out of the way, if you believe that nothing can be done to address mass shootings without trampling on our rights, I suppose all you have to do is say so.

I don't care what Kamala Harris thinks, because there will always be a Kamala Harris. She's not convincing me and I'm not convincing her - our positions are solidified. I do, however, care about the herd of ambivalent people Kamala Harris may well convince to back her anti-self defense policies. Thus the question.

[Cypher]

Once more, for the cheap seats...

Addressing the problem of mass shootings does not necessarily equate to mandatory buybacks of black rifles and normal magazines, giving up HIPPA protection to buy a gun, making it a felony to borrow my dad's gun for a hunting trip, or really even engaging "The Grabber." You'll note that I've not once proposed appeasing "The Grabber," nor did I limit my question to gun control measures. You have shown us on the doll where Dianne Feinstein touched you. Now that that part's out of the way, if you believe that nothing can be done to address mass shootings without trampling on our rights, I suppose all you have to do is say so.

I don't care what Kamala Harris thinks, because there will always be a Kamala Harris. She's not convincing me and I'm not convincing her - our positions are solidified. I do, however, care about the herd of ambivalent people Kamala Harris may well convince to back her anti-self defense policies. Thus the question.

Am I speaking Chinese? There. Is. No. Answer. For. Your. Question.

Crazy people do crazy people shit. Short of walking crazy people up nothing you do is going to stop crazy people from doing crazy people shit. Capish?


So that's your answer, lock crazy people up

[JRB]

They are absolutely a problem because every single one of them that occurs adds to the momentum that is currently building against my right to armed self-defense. Dismiss that at your (and my) peril.

By the way, you can skip the condescension: I'm well aware that there weren't actually 9000 mass shootings last year and I'm also well aware that FBI UCR data shows about 3-400 homicides per year committed with rifles.

We're absolutely not dismissive of that building momentum. The problem is that momentum has built up because of a combination of the media circuses, and their relentless, unreasonable, loud, 'fuck you I want more of your cake' approach to politics in general including anti-2A stuff.

Being unreasonable is the whole reason they've made this 'progress' against us. We keep pretending they're reasonable, or there's a way to reason with them, or a negotiation strategy, or something painless we can put in front of the band saw instead of something we care about - and it simply does not fucking exist.

Pretending it does only delays any effective response.

[Cypher]

But going back to what I said earlier, if we start putting violent criminal offenders in jail and leaving them there the overall homicide rate will go down.

That is a concrete result that we can point to and say we've made progress in this area overall gun violence is decreasing. We can also offer definitive proof that the real problem isn't guns it's violent criminal REPEAT offenders