Velocity threshold for bullets

[BehindBlueI's]

The crux of this argument is deviation from a factory issue standard can open the door to criminal and civil liability. If you accept that argument is valid and a significant possibility then you should practice that argument to all logical conclusions to remain consistent. This would include:

Not using an AR-15, AK-47, or similar military style rifle in a civilian defensive role.

Not using any after market triggers, springs, or non standard factory fire control components.

Not using compensators or muzzle brakes that allow for faster follow up shots.

No Aimpoint or similar style electronic red dot sights or variable power 1-4,1-6,1-8 optics etc as used by military special operations teams.

No enhanced after market grips, no forward grips, no retractable stocks.

No flashlight/laser aiming devices.

No high capacity 15, 20, 30, or 40 round magazines.

No aftermarket ejection port covers with designs or statements

No laser etched lower receivers with designs and statements or forged skull, spartan, crusader, etc type designs.

No suppressors

No plate carriers, body armor, or magazine pouches.

No +P or +P+ factory ammo

No boutique ammo or factory ammo with a dangerous sounding name such as Black Talon.


Any argument made against using reloaded ammo in a defensive scenario can also be made against any item on the previous list. Unlike reloaded ammunition we can easily use Google to find many of those items mentioned as contributing factors in the pursuit of criminal charges yet I bet every one of you arguing against the use of reloads are using several items on that list on your defensive firearms. This is cherry picking in an attempt to avoid liability in the highest liability action that a person can perform.

The Speer 64 Grain Gold Dot was affordable when it was on clearance for $10 a box shipped so I use it. This was when XM-193 was $8+ a box.

Many of those things are stupid as well. Others require very little explanation, but will need to be explained. A light is easy to explain, to build a counter narrative that paints you as responsible. Stupid dust cover? Hard sell.

What's the counter narrative for reloaded ammo? Paint it in a good light for me.

[Clusterfrack]

I load my own bear defense 10mm ammo for my Glock 20 because I want the best possible load for this use. When I’m in town I switch to Fed HST. I can’t see any advantage to using handloads when vetted commercial defense ammo is available.

[Nightvisionary]

You’re living in a fantasy world. Just because it shouldn’t matter doesn’t mean that’s how it actually plays out. The variables are as plentiful as the number of different personalities of prosecutors and civil attorneys. If you’re willing to assume unnecessary risk that’s your choice. But doing so for something like pistol ammo... I’m not the one with backwards priorities.

As for hand rolled ammo in general - I get that shooters can produce better stuff for long range precision than you get from even high end factory stuff. But defensive pistol ammo - I can’t see how a shooter gets better performance worthy of risking getting on the radar of a DA who is left of center.

You are making the extraordinary claim and not providing a single documentable piece of evidence. Perhaps it is you living in a fantasy world. I hope you don't have a laser and +P ammo in that HD gun of yours. The prosecutor can easily turn your good shoot into a bad shoot. In other news bullets rise once they leave the barrel, barrels need a break in process too shoot accurately, the VC could shoot our ammo through thier guns but we couldn't shoot thier's through ours, a near miss with a 50 BMG will still kill, and Jeffrey Epstein committed suicide.

[Clusterfrack]

You do know that BBI is a subject matter expert in this area... ?

[Nightvisionary]

I load my own bear defense 10mm ammo for my Glock 20 because I want the best possible load for this use. When I’m in town I switch to Fed HST. I can’t see any advantage to using handloads when vetted commercial defense ammo is available.

Federal HST 10mm is downloaded to anemic 40 S&W +P velocity. In that case you are better off carrying a 9mm or 40.

[Clusterfrack]

Federal HST 10mm is downloaded to anemic 40 S&W +P velocity. In that case you are better off carrying a 9mm or 40.

Dude, I wasn’t looking for ammo advice, but I’m happy to clarify.

I carry a 9mm with HST 147 for most uses. When I’m in grizzly country, sometimes I carry a Glock 20. I don’t have a spare 9mm gun in my pack, so I just swap mags with HST 200gr.

[El Cid]

You are making the extraordinary claim and not providing a single documentable piece of evidence. Perhaps it is you living in a fantasy world. I hope you don't have a laser and +P ammo in that HD gun of yours. The prosecutor can easily turn your good shoot into a bad shoot. In other news bullets rise once they leave the barrel, barrels need a break in process too shoot accurately, the VC could shoot our ammo through thier guns but we couldn't shoot thier's through ours, a near miss with a 50 BMG will still kill, and Jeffrey Epstein committed suicide.

Lol! As has been explained several times... you’re asking for documentation for something that doesn’t get documented. Do what makes you happy. But don’t pretend it’s not a thing because you don’t want it to be.

[BehindBlueI's]

You do know that BBI is a subject matter expert in this area... ?

He doesn't care. Actual expertise and experience is no match for imagination and actively ignoring the example provided. I'm not trying to change his mind. Everyone can have an opinion. We don't have to pretend they are all equal.

[Nightvisionary]

Lol! As has been explained several times... you’re asking for documentation for something that doesn’t get documented. Do what makes you happy. But don’t pretend it’s not a thing because you don’t want it to be.

In other words we are relying on faith that it is true? You are saying something is true yet cannot provide not a single example of when it has actually occurred, ever. Many of the arguments I have heard in this thread were taken almost verbatim from a gun magazine article I just found in a 10 second Google search. It too has no factual source but is based on regurgitated opinion. I have a PACER account with the Fed Courts. I am certainly willing to research some case transcripts if someone can provide a specific case number or USA V reference where this has ever been a factor. Certainly in the 150 years since metallic cartridges came into common use along with reloading presses to reload such cases there must be a single example in US case law, court trial transcripts, appeals, witness and juror interviews, something somewhere.

[Nightvisionary]

Dude, I wasn’t looking for ammo advice, but I’m happy to clarify.

I carry a 9mm with HST 147 for most uses. When I’m in grizzly country, sometimes I carry a Glock 20. I don’t have a spare 9mm gun in my pack, so I just swap mags with HST 200gr.

What will you do if while out in the woods with your 10mm hand loaded Bear rounds you are attacked by a man with a gun, knife, axe? Do you keep a spare magazine or pistol loaded only with factory HST for human threats?