If I missed the point please provide an actual example of the situation you described.Originally Posted by Hambo
If I missed the point please provide an actual example of the situation you described.
Yay, I have a fan from Antifa/John Brown Gun Club. Good day to you Komrade.
You’ve got me wrong. I’m saying it’s within the realm of possibility you could have both a moral and legal justification to kill a 15 year old who is using a rock as a weapon. That’s the type of situation that people with a limited knowledge of violence might have a problem understanding. Hell, half of the people on the internets don’t think a knife is really that dangerous.Yay, I have a fan from Antifa/John Brown Gun Club. Good day to you Komrade.
If you should find yourself in such a situation; having reloads in your weapon might just be another “demerit” in the mind of an overzealous or liberal leaning prosecutor or ignorant juror. Like the DA and juror in the Fish case who didn’t like 10mm.
ETA: I’ve got a friend who served in the GWOT as a Ranger and Green Beret who’s about as conservative as it gets who made some negative comments about “guys who make their own bullets” referring to folks shooting reloads at one of the run and gun endurance races he went to after he got out.
Last edited by Caballoflaco; 11-01-2019 at 02:31 PM.
You seem to believe that everything everywhere is online. Common issue these days, but not the case.
I've already given you an example. You've brushed it off. I'm not sure how you've decided powder stipling won't be part of your defense. Perhaps you wear a body camera all the time and think forensics that seem to contradict your statement won't matter. Seems a big leap to me.
I've also given you a bit of the view behind the curtain on a case where ammunition mattered, and then explained why what you ask for doesn't often exist in the public domain
The reason I referred you to the modifications thread was because you're arguing from the same standpoint. You don't understand what happens behind the scenes. You don't understand how attorneys are trained to build narratives for juries. You don't even understand the basic rules of evidence. That's fine, as most people have no reason to know these things. I think you're doing wrong to brush the voices telling you it's a bad idea as just the need for gun writers to write. Mas, in particular, is more than "a gun writer" and has the credentials as a court recognized expert witness and was a chair for the Forensic Evidence Committee of the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers. I have presented hundreds of shootings to the prosecutor for file/no-file decision and been lead witness in no-idea-how-many trials. Sat through voir dire and helped select jurors, heard the questions jurors asked me or others, etc. I've been on the other side of the desk and lawsuit as well. I've watched the shitbag's attorney dig for whatever they can to present the narrative they want to. "Show me the transcripts where Facebook posts did..." but they sure ask about social media presence. I guess he was just curious, though, right? What I post on Facebook (I don't, btw) has no bearing on good shoot/bad shoot or civil liability...but it does.
It's low probability issue that won't matter right up until it does. Then it'll be an expensive question to resolve. Just like dumb shit engraved on guns, running your suck online, etc. with the added bonus of the potential to screw up forensics. But you do you based on how you imagine things work.
Sorta around sometimes for some of your shitty mod needs.
As I understand it, one will only find an ammo issue specifically when it is a cause for appeal. The appeal will then be available in public documents. Otherwise, the issue will be the affect on the opinions the prosecutor pushes on the jurors.....not measurable or predictable. But the ammo can be the feather that breaks the camel's back and it is immeasurable.
Serious question. Do you go on patrol with non-factory ammo?
Im in the private sector now. When I worked for a county and federal agency no, but as far as my volunteer work goes, rifle ammo no (Speer .223 Gold Dot), pistol ammo yes (reloads with 9mm 124 grain Speer Gold Dot).
If you own a firearm for self defense and are concerned about using non-factory ammunition but not concerned with having legal defense and civil liability insurance your priorities are backwards. You are protecting yourself from an ill defined,immeasurable and undocumented possibility while leaving yourself wide open to criminal and civil liability. How many here can comfortably pay a $50K bail bond or $25k retainer. I don't spend time worrying about getting hit by meteorites but I do wear my seat belt when I drive.
Last edited by Nightvisionary; 11-02-2019 at 09:22 AM.
I agree that insurance is important and we have it. The question is this: if you're concerned enough to buy insurance, why would you intentionally do something that is a potential legal risk? I take it that it's not a monetary situation. Obviously factory Gold Dot works well enough, so it's not that your ammo is somehow better. And why only pistol ammo? It makes no sense to me.
"Gunfighting is a thinking man's game. So we might want to bring thinking back into it."-MDFA
Beware of my temper, and the dog that I've found...
The crux of this argument is deviation from a factory issue standard can open the door to criminal and civil liability. If you accept that argument is valid and a significant possibility then you should practice that argument to all logical conclusions to remain consistent. This would include:
Not using an AR-15, AK-47, or similar military style rifle in a civilian defensive role.
Not using any after market triggers, springs, or non standard factory fire control components.
Not using compensators or muzzle brakes that allow for faster follow up shots.
No Aimpoint or similar style electronic red dot sights or variable power 1-4,1-6,1-8 optics etc as used by military special operations teams.
No enhanced after market grips, no forward grips, no retractable stocks.
No flashlight/laser aiming devices.
No high capacity 15, 20, 30, or 40 round magazines.
No aftermarket ejection port covers with designs or statements
No laser etched lower receivers with designs and statements or forged skull, spartan, crusader, etc type designs.
No suppressors
No plate carriers, body armor, or magazine pouches.
No +P or +P+ factory ammo
No boutique ammo or factory ammo with a dangerous sounding name such as Black Talon.
Any argument made against using reloaded ammo in a defensive scenario can also be made against any item on the previous list. Unlike reloaded ammunition we can easily use Google to find many of those items mentioned as contributing factors in the pursuit of criminal charges yet I bet every one of you arguing against the use of reloads are using several items on that list on your defensive firearms. This is cherry picking in an attempt to avoid liability in the highest liability action that a person can perform.
The Speer 64 Grain Gold Dot was affordable when it was on clearance for $10 a box shipped so I use it. This was when XM-193 was $8+ a box.
Last edited by Nightvisionary; 11-02-2019 at 12:25 PM.
You’re living in a fantasy world. Just because it shouldn’t matter doesn’t mean that’s how it actually plays out. The variables are as plentiful as the number of different personalities of prosecutors and civil attorneys. If you’re willing to assume unnecessary risk that’s your choice. But doing so for something like pistol ammo... I’m not the one with backwards priorities.
As for hand rolled ammo in general - I get that shooters can produce better stuff for long range precision than you get from even high end factory stuff. But defensive pistol ammo - I can’t see how a shooter gets better performance worthy of risking getting on the radar of a DA who is left of center.
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