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Thread: Velocity threshold for bullets

  1. #11
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    My perception is that the older-style cup and core bullets actually do better in the heavier weights (158-180 grain) in revolvers. The heavier Gold Dots and XTPs appear to need rifle velocities to expand. If you don't see a need to shoot through auto glass and/or sheet metal and want to stick with the heavier weights, I'd go old school. OTOH, the 135-grain Gold Dots seem to do well at revolver velocities; I have no idea how they'd do from a rifle.

    Target Sports has Remington 125s in SJHP and Golden Sabre and 158 SJHPs for $21/box of 50 and 180 SJHPs for $24. Just sayin'...

  2. #12
    Arguments against reloading defense ammo aside, Hornady is the only manufacturer that I know of that readily gives this info. If you pick good bullets, and drive them to velocities close to factory ammo, you'd likely get similar performance, no matter what brand of bullet you choose.

    I have contemplated reloading my own .357 135gr Gold Dot for defense use, simply because while the bullets are cheapish (and available, usually), factory loaded .357 GD is near or slightly over a buck per round (and often hard to find). I don't often carry the .357 for defense use, besides bumming around the mountains and deserts. Likelihood of using that gun, in those places, in a defensive manner is slimmer than the places I'd carry my G19/RA9T combo. Flip side is that I have a few boxes of the .357 135 GD already, and can practice with other ammo (my loads), and load up factory ammo when needed for carry.

  3. #13
    I've had good luck just asking the bullet manufacturers, by email. Sometimes they have partial info sometimes all you need to know.
    Enough people are using the same loads in both handgun/carbine that there's a growing amount of info out there.

    If it's a bullet that's used by hunters, they can be a decent source of performance info over wide velocities.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by WDR View Post
    Arguments against reloading defense ammo aside, Hornady is the only manufacturer that I know of that readily gives this info.
    Speer will provide that info for their rifle bullets, but I never asked about handgun bullets.

    Chris

  5. #15
    Member 03RN's Avatar
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    Thanks, I'll post whatever responses I get.

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbkr View Post
    Speer will provide that info for their rifle bullets, but I never asked about handgun bullets.

    Chris
    LE side used to have a poster of all their handgun ammo, specs including FBI test’s and pics. They might still have those and I would guess they have one for rifle ammo too.
    uneducated and low information
    I'll wager you a PF dollar™ 😎
    He needed a healthy dose of bonded bullets. LSP552

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by 03RN View Post
    Are there published numbers for bullets? Specifically 357 ones?

    I'd like to start loading up some defensive ammo since it's so expensive.

    I'd also like to find something that works from a 2.75"-20" barrel. I know, right? LoL

    The 180gr Remington bullets seem to be the most consistent besides hard cast bullets which I really am ok carrying. I'd love to find something that works from 1300-1800fps.

    Are most 158 JSP the same? I've seen results with the AE load that I'd be happy with and have seen basic 158 JSP almost as cheap as cast.

    Speer has a 135 fmj that would be a good practice load as I think 135 makes a good defensive load. How are the 135 speers and are the 135 flexlock bullets available for sale?
    I suggest Jhp over Jsp. Hornsby HTP 140 grain bullets will reach adequate velocity in the shorter barrel and will really hum out of a rifle. H110 or Win 296 excel at producing high velocities within acceptable pressure limits. They are not useful for midrange or light loads. These two powders are the same and come out of the same horse. In coming months I plan to start casting again because I love the activity. I have at least 1500-2000 lbs of lead. I have ideas about what a good bullet is and plan to order a custom mold. After all the effort, I'll roll cans with my fancy bullets. I may let you design the bullet. I'll pay for the mold. Pay the freight, and I'll ship you a few 1000.

  8. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by BehindBlueI's View Post
    I'd recommend against it. Loading duplicates to practice with, sure. Loading for actual defensive use, no. There are existing threads on why, but the quick and dirty Reader's Digest version is it can taint a prosecutor toward you, can potentially create false impressions in forensic reconstruction of shootings, and it can be used to create a narrative with a criminal or civil jury.

    To head off the inevitable, no it won't turn a 'good shoot' into a 'bad shoot' and no the law doesn't (usually) specify what sort of bullets you can use. Neither of those things make the above less true.
    Can anyone provide a single documented instance where this was a factor in a prosecution or civil proceeding? After studying the issue for 30 years I have been unable to find documentation supporting this assertion.
    https://www.arizonaborderrecon.org/volunteer/

  9. #19
    LE Forum Moderator BehindBlueI's's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightvisionary View Post
    Can anyone provide a single documented instance where this was a factor in a prosecution or civil proceeding? After studying the issue for 30 years I have been unable to find documentation supporting this assertion.
    I'm on my phone, but see the thread on modifications.
    L'otters are not afraid.
    WWOMJD?

    Quote Originally Posted by UNM1136 View Post
    Maybe with talented students I would lube up with baby oil and then go at it.

  10. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightvisionary View Post
    Can anyone provide a single documented instance where this was a factor in a prosecution or civil proceeding? After studying the issue for 30 years I have been unable to find documentation supporting this assertion.
    Specifically the use of homemade defensive ammo? Or ammo selection? Because the prosecution successfully (at least until appeal) used Harold Fish's 10mm hollowpoints against him:

    "And the jury had another issue to think about: Fish’s gun.

    The firearms investigator said that Fish’s gun — a 10mm — is more powerful than what police officers use and is not typically used for personal protection. And the ammunition Fish used to shoot Kuenzli three times, called “a hollow-point bullet,” is made to expand when it enters the body.

    When he decided to pull the trigger, the prosecutor said, Fish should have known what the consequences would be.

    Lessler: Mr. Fish knew well what a hollow-point bullet does.

    Larson: And the end product of his shooting is going to be death?

    Lessler: Yes.

    ...

    And this juror was disturbed by the type of bullets Fish used.

    Elliot: The whole hollow point thing bothered me. That bullet is designed to do as much damage as absolutely possible. It’s designed to kill.
    http://www.nbcnews.com/id/15199221/n...rail-evidence/
    Last edited by 0ddl0t; 10-29-2019 at 06:54 AM.

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