I was going to join in this thread last night and started writing something about .45 and 9mm. Then I thought to my self, "What the F--- are you doing?
I made an Old Fashioned and sat down to watch a movie.
On the other hand, there are some more interesting posts than usual in a caliber discussion and am kind of enjoying it.
That target sure does illustrate just how shitty C and D zone hits really are....Originally Posted by JHC
I know right? That was my "holy shit" reaction to K.B. first time introduced to them on the range. First time he put me threw the paces on one, I threw a shot, a FORTY-FIVE, to dead center of the targets shoulder ball joint. I claimed full credit for the devastating fracture, to no avail. That one added to my # of pullups owed on the bars after the shooting. 19 pullups total that day IIRC.
Last edited by JHC; 09-04-2019 at 01:09 PM.
“Remember, being healthy is basically just dying as slowly as possible,” Ricky Gervais
Here is the “real” caliber failure. When someone chooses a particular pistol and load for their own use, and then proceeds to claim someone using something different is “practicing to get killed on the street.” We all know that operator skill is the most important factor. After that, caliber and platform may be a factor depending upon circumstances, but let’s face it, we would all bring an AR or 1301 if we thought there would be trouble.
It is a lot easier to buy a caliber than the skill to use it, and it is too common for folks, especially on the internet, to think their caliber choice is a substitute for their piss poor technical skills.
Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.
My aging hands are still working fairly well, my left being better than my right, but, I am already noticing that larger cartridges are easier to handle, when loading them into a magazine. So, there, a reason to prefer .45 ACP, when everything else is so much equal/equivalent-ish.
A 1911 is a good old man’s gun, at least for this aspiring-to-become-old man.
I like my G17 and G19x pistols, too, even if I do have to use one of those orthopedic mag-loader-assistance thingies.
I worked for Houston PD, in Texas, from late 1983 to early 2018, which authorized a number of duty cartridges, from 9mm/38 Special, up to and including the several .45 cartridges, until 1997. Cadets started with .357 revolvers, until some time in the mid-Nineties, when they were started with .40 S&W decockers. The .40 S&W became standard department-wide, in September 1997, with older, existing duty weapons grandfathered. .45 ACP was restored, as a optional duty cartridge, in late 2012, followed by 9mm in late 2015. About the time I retired, I think 9mm became standard, for the new cadets, with older, existing duty weapons being grandfathered. My take, based upon rumors, anecdotes, war stories, is that all duty cartridges work, if one hits the important bits.
I was a believer in big-boredom, at the start, but by the early Nineties, did not see any disadvantage to carrying .357 Magnum, or the top-tier 9mm +P and .38 Special +P ammo. I reckoned that Magnum velocity would be helpful at longer range, or when punching through barriers, and have not changed that opinion. I still like a GP100, as a “traveling gun.
At least one .380 ACP managed to break a human femur, at a robbery scene in Houston, producing a fall-down-right-there, so, knowing that the femur is big and strong, as human bones go, I am OK with .380 as a minimal carry pistol round. If I elect to opt for a G42, when out and about, I know that I cannot expect to have a realistic chance to penetrate auto body metal, if I am attacked by a robbery team, or such event.
I reckon that standard-velocity .38 Special will behave somewhat like .380 ACP, though the differing bullet weights mean it is apples-and-oranges.
I do know that service/duty cartridges do have a decent chance to punch through car/truck/van doors, sides, seat backs, and trunks, especially if the angle is favorable. I realize that anecdotes do not constitute data, but if I am the one doing the anecdoting, by seeing the results with my own eyes, I can believe it, if I want.
Last edited by Rex G; 09-04-2019 at 02:39 PM.
Retar’d LE. Kinesthetic dufus.
Don’t tread on volcanos!
Seems to me like there are at least three separate discussions going on here. There's the comparison of 19th century service rounds, a comparison of older versus newer bullets, and a comparison of new bullets in different calibers. Oh, and a very interesting history lesson by TGS. And some discussion about a certain kind of target. I'm counting five conversations so far. Plus a conversation about the amount of conversations in this thread, so make that six.So far.
That is the exact same reason I put the floor at .380. The smallest common cartridge that reliably breaks the femur, which I've seen repeatedly.
And to eliminate the next line, yes the femur isn't a primary target. Sometimes "center mass" is whatever is exposed, though, and sometimes in an entangled fight you take what you can get.
Sorta around sometimes for some of your shitty mod needs.
My mention of the .380-breaking-femur was specifically intended to affirm your post.
Retar’d LE. Kinesthetic dufus.
Don’t tread on volcanos!
I literally just said ‘Holy Shit’ out loud just now.
That’s amazing. Having these critical zones overlaid with a USPSA Target is...revealing.
Question: the lower part has a square around the um gentleman region. What’s the point of shooting someone there? (I apologize if this is a stupid question).
As Clint Smith said, and I may not have this word-for-word, it's not a fight stopper but it's a hell of a way to start the conversation.
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