One of the problems with my anecdotal evidence of shotguns/556 vs people is that there was no autopsy. Just the effects on the threat.Originally Posted by Unobtanium
One of the problems with my anecdotal evidence of shotguns/556 vs people is that there was no autopsy. Just the effects on the threat.
This is the near side lung of a deer I shot at about 15 or 20 yards (not sure) last year with FCC #1 buck.
The deer's legs buckled on impact. I've never seen that before. It ran poorly about 15 yards and fell down for the count.
The shottie is leading candidate this year for my woods hunting. I'd like to get more data points.
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Last edited by JHC; 09-18-2019 at 04:25 PM.
“Remember, being healthy is basically just dying as slowly as possible,” Ricky Gervais
I get that, but I have seen somewhere the gelatin results of the old very large, slow lead projectiles that preceded the faster Spitzer bullet designs, and I believe that despite their lack of velocity, and the stretch effects one would expect with that velocity, they were extremely effective projectiles. More effective than one would expect from their low velocity and simply being a hole punch. Paging @DocGKR
Last edited by Doc_Glock; 09-18-2019 at 05:03 PM.
I've come across that too. I think it depends on whether its a 1300 fps pumpkin ball and a 1500 fps TruBall or Brenneke. Somewhere in there there is a "sound barrier" then BOOM. A factor of diameter and velocity.
“Remember, being healthy is basically just dying as slowly as possible,” Ricky Gervais
I found this quote: "Until the late 1800's, military rifles fired large, heavy, relatively slow, soft lead bullets which deformed on impact and reliably incapacitated opponents. In the late 1890's to early 1900’s, new military rifles were developed which fired smaller diameter, lighter weight, non-deforming FMJ bullets at much higher velocities. The new FMJ bullets initially had round noses, but within 10 years, pointed (spitzer) noses were standard Although the velocities of these new FMJ military bullets were 60 to 100% greater than the older lead bullets, the tissue damage produced by the new higher velocity FMJ bullets was so minimal, that uncomplicated soft tissue wounds frequently healed with treatment limited to aseptic dressings. In addition, compared to the reliable incapacitation produced by the old lower velocity lead bullets, the new higher velocity FMJ bullets proved ineffective at reliably incapacitating opponents in combat, as British troop discovered to their dismay in the Chitral Campaign of 1895."
In this sticky: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....listic-History
But I seem to remember seeing some Gel tests of the old rounds. The larger projectiles, I think, did not need high velocity to get the tissue stretch and fracture effects of the smaller projectile. I would think a shotgun slug would act much like the old musket balls, but that is conjecture on my part.
There would be a bucket of slush if thay had been a 5.56. So I wonder...why the terminal reaction difference.
Never saw that bucket of slush with the 556. 130gr v max from a 270 at 20 yards yes. But then they still ran 50 yards.
Whether heart or lungs they were still easily recognizable and the hearts were still able to be saved when shot with a 556.
So...there are multiple effective ways to kill things with long-arms or even handguns?
Like you can go with higher velocity, lighter, medium-to-high expansion projectiles...or...lower velocity, heavier, low-to-medium expansion projectiles?
What if someone did a higher velocity, heavier, high expansion projectile? What we would call that? Since it's like...I dunno twice as good as normal maybe we could co-opt some term from another industry. Like the wine industry refers to a twice the normal size bottle of wine as a magnum. Maybe we could use that term...
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I know Foster slugs tend to act like big, non-expanding, pistol bullets. But they are BIG pistol bullets...and they weigh a lot...somewhere around 500-grains and about .73" in diameter.
This does make me wonder about how effective those polymer and steel Dupleks expanding slugs really are. I'm turned off by the idea of the petals breaking off, but if you had a slug that expanded just a little bit and deposited virtually all of its energy inside of the thing you were shooting...that'd probably be pretty effective.
I'll take a picture of the organs this year. I've not used browntip yet, so we will see.
They certainly were...mainly because the soft lead projectiles would deform and essentially expand. When those were put in the right place it was most certainly effective.
Soft foster style slugs tend to give the best chance of that style of expansion in shotguns today, although they generally don't expand much in medium sized game unless you hit a large bone structure or something similar.
If you need maximum penetration you have to get a harder slug. Federal's Tru-Ball Deep Penetrator or one of the harder Brenneke slugs is likely the best bet if you are trying to shoot big bears or bad guys in vehicles.
3/15/2016
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