Shotguns vs rifles

[TCinVA]

Shotgun training, for me, has been harder to come by. I'll be seeing Mr. Haught and Son later this fall, but outside of that, the only options that I was aware of were classes at my local ranges (Scottsdale Gun Club/C2 Tactical), and a Practical Shotgun through Glen Stilson at Independence Training ($225). SGC used to have a 'defensive' shotgun before a lack of attendance led to the instructors changing it to a 'basic' class. I took both at <$100 each, noting that the basic class focused more on patterning loads. The listed round count was the same as before, but in reality we fired less than a third. C2 Tactical has a progression of classes all with higher round counts, but I have yet to take any of them due to a lack of transparency with their instructor backgrounds combined with hearing very mixed opinions from others who have attended. This may change in the future since they did hire a new director of training not that long ago. I do buy 7-10 boxes of 00 Flite Control a year at local retail price, but that is divided over two purchases a year and is negligible compared to what I spend on 9mm.

If you are training with 00 Haught, you will be exposed to some of the finest defensive shotgun training available on the planet Earth.

One of the great thing about shotguns is that the majority of what you really need to practice with one can be accomplished with dummy shells doing dryfire. Moreso than any other platform we regularly use. You can practice getting the gun mounted, working it effectively, loading it efficiently, and then if you fire a box or two of shells a month working on your recoil mitigation then you've kept all the core skills with the weapon razor sharp.

The shotgun takes more initial knowledge to get up to speed on, but once you know what to practice it's one of the easiest weapons to maintain competency or proficiency with.

Quality shotgun training is indeed in short supply...but a few of us (Givens, Haught, and recently myself) are trying to fix that.

Given the way the political winds are blowing, I expect shotgun training to be more in demand in the near future. Which will hopefully cause more instructors to go out and learn how to teach the gauge.

[RevolverRob]

Quality shotgun training is indeed in short supply...but a few of us (Givens, Haught, and recently myself) are trying to fix that.

Besides the three mentioned there -

Darryl Bolke
Clint Smith
Scotty Reitz

And then you're starting to run out of guys who have used/trained shotguns in an offensive/defensive capacity for many years.

[Paul Blackburn]

How do mount lights on the 1301's?

[RevolverRob]

How do mount lights on the 1301's?

You can see a few options in the LTT 1301 thread and of course the massive 1301 Tactical thread

[Super77]

Carbine all the way for me. I recognize the value of a shotgun but when I pick one up it’s like speaking a foreign language. I can do it but there’s a split second of translation when I try to execute the manual of arms on a shotgun. An M4 just feels more effortless and transparent to me. I will say that sight offset can be an issue and if I don’t shoot an M4 close for a long time I have to remind myself to shoot high.

A big consideration has become getting the wife to some acceptable level of proficiency in defending herself at home. She’s reasonably good at running a pistol but doesn’t like long guns. Her plan is to sit in the baby’s room and blast any assailant that comes through the door. I don’t expect her to remember to use sight offset or (even necessarily work a safety based on BBI’s data) so for now she has a Glock with a WML in the safe by our bed. That’s as simple and un-intimidating as I can make it for her. That said, what is the recommended method for storing a Beretta 1301 safely but ready to go for a minimally trained person?

In reference to @BehindBlueI’s data set: It’s interesting that defenders with long guns were more likely to be disarmed. For weapon retention I’ve always thought one of the benefits of a sling is that it’s harder for someone to take a weapon off you and use it. My home defense carbine has a sling for this reason. I also like an SBR for the simple reason that I can tuck it back with the stock in my armpit when I manipulate things with my left arm. That way I’m still in control of the weapon and can keep the muzzle where I want it.

[Unobtanium]

Put me in the 5.56 carbine with good ammo camp.

I read a lot online. I talked to my friends who have had to kill people using both. Then I went out and killed some larger animals with both (deer).

I also watched videos of deer hunting and subsequent field dressing (as buckshot is illegal, so I used slug, in my state)

I came to the conclusion that the 5.56 expanding round is just plain more destructive than slug or buckshot. The shotgun is operating at pistol velocity, and produces big pistol type wounds. Only touched tissue is destroyed. It pokes holes. The 5.56 on the other hand turns organs to mush. The lungs are where this phenomenon is most visible with both platforms. A good trauma surgeon might can fix some shotgun stuff. Literally nothing can be done with a souped lung from a 5.56. Deer react the same and run roughly the same from either, I observed in personal as well as filmed 2nd hand experience.

[JodyH]

Something, something, mission drives the gear something, something.

Benelli M4 anytime the realistic engagement distance is <35Y.
FN/Geissele M4'ish carbine anytime the realistic engagement distance is 25Y to 200Y.
H&K MR762 anytime the realistic engagement distance is 100Y to 500Y.

btw: that's the order they are stacked inside my bedroom safe.

[RevolverRob]

Something, something, mission drives the gear something, something.

Benelli M4 anytime the realistic engagement distance is <35Y.
FN/Geissele M4'ish carbine anytime the realistic engagement distance is 25Y to 200Y.
H&K MR762 anytime the realistic engagement distance is 100Y to 500Y.

btw: that's the order they are stacked inside my bedroom safe.

Yea I'm more or less the same.

Except my go to AR is a Colt-pattern AR9 zero'ed for 25-yards. But I use that gun to shoot the occasional PCC match and I find it very easy to use. Plus three or four rounds of 124-grain +P HST to COM isn't going to entirely suck.

[revchuck38]

Yea I'm more or less the same.

Except my go to AR is a Colt-pattern AR9 zero'ed for 25-yards. But I use that gun to shoot the occasional PCC match and I find it very easy to use. Plus three or four rounds of 124-grain +P HST to COM isn't going to entirely suck.

I'm not sure the person on the receiving end would agree.

[RevolverRob]

I'm not sure the person on the receiving end would agree.

As my father would say, "That sounds like a personal problem."