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Thread: Shotguns vs rifles

  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    What would cause that woman, who was later taken hostage, to stay there with all that happening?
    If you live in the hood and go running (hobbling) back inside every time the people are acting the fool, the police show up, or people are acting the fool with the police, youíll die in your closet of starvation.

    For most of those folks, at a quick glance, nothing out of the ordinary is going on. Unfortunate reality of life for a lot of decent people.
    Whether you think you can or you can't, you're probably right.

  2. #152
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    I couldn't find a clip of this but in an old X-Files, a guy takes a hostage in a bus and they are sitting together (Mulder might have lost his primary to the hostage taker, I don't recall). However, Mulder pulls a Bug - which looked like a Walther or Sig old style 380. He points it at the taker who says : Blah, Blah.

    Mulder says: I will count to ten and you'd better let the hostage go.

    One, two, three, BANG.

    That close up closing with the hostage taker as in the shotgun video, was something I was shown in a class. However, as a fat, old guy, civilian with no experience at this - I offer this comment only for information and not a comment on my abilities. Did the shotgun hostage shot with paper and buckshot in classes and matches. Don't every want to be there. More power to those who can do it for real.

  3. #153
    Murder Machine, Harmless Fuzzball TCinVA's Avatar
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    This one is just for funsies:



    The good part is at 4:25
    Last edited by TCinVA; 09-26-2019 at 08:27 AM.
    3/15/2016

  4. #154
    CLIMATE REFUGEE LittleLebowski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TCinVA View Post
    This one is just for funsies:

    The good part is at 4:25
    DAMN.

  5. #155
    Perpetually Tired RevolverRob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TCinVA View Post
    This one is just for funsies:



    The good part is at 4:25
    The other thing that video shows is that you can miss with buckshot even at longer'ish ranges. In "Round 2" he misses the runner twice. Both times pushed left of the animal. In slow mo you can see the impact on the ground from the buckshot load. When the hog went down at first, I thought it was due to being hit, but in slow-mo I realized it just slipped in the mud.

    And in case no one noticed, at ~10-12 yards in Round 2...he didn't even hit the hog with that wild and crazy flying wad, that should have hit the hog in the eye and blinded it forever.
    Last edited by RevolverRob; 09-26-2019 at 11:30 AM.
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  6. #156
    Member cor_man257's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TCinVA View Post
    This one is just for funsies:



    The good part is at 4:25
    I showed this to my wife while out to lunch. She was like "Wow, his K/D ratio is amazing!"

    -Cory

  7. #157
    Murder Machine, Harmless Fuzzball TCinVA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RevolverRob View Post
    The other thing that video shows is that you can miss with buckshot even at longer'ish ranges. In "Round 2" he misses the runner twice. Both times pushed left of the animal.
    Indeed...and note how much bigger the pattern was on the misses versus the size of the pattern when it initially hit the hogs. It went from being about the size of a small plate to almost the size of the hog he missed in a relatively short distance. One of the enduring myths of buckshot is that it spreads 1" for every yard of distance, but that's really not true. It doesn't spread in a linear fashion. It's spreads more on an exponential curve.

    The magic of buckshot is in the concentration of pellets.

    Although in this case the result of dropping 5 hogs with one shot was due to the location of the shot: Whether it was deliberate or happy accident, he put the pellets from that first shot right in the spines of those hogs. Even the pass-throughs hit spine.
    Last edited by TCinVA; 09-26-2019 at 02:34 PM.
    3/15/2016

  8. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by RevolverRob View Post
    Well, I admit, itís been a minute since I scooped an eye out and cut it open in anatomy class. But itís still considerably more elastic than cardboard.

    Itís also surrounded by a very dense bony socket. And a 12-gauge wad is about as large in diameter as a human eye. Making the likelihood of a direct impact on an eye, which is what it would take to damage the eye massively, would be virtual luck. I think itís more likely that 1) the eye lid is closed. 2) the wad, doesnít even get close to the face. 3) if it does, it will likely strike some portion of the nose/zygomatic and result in deflection of the was. Causing a fairly superficial laceration, maybe requiring a few stitches and an eye patch for a few days.

    This is an almost totally overblown issue guys.
    Until it isn't.

  9. #159
    Fornicates with shovels Hambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TCinVA View Post
    Although in this case the result of dropping 5 hogs with one shot was due to the location of the shot: Whether it was deliberate or happy accident, he put the pellets from that first shot right in the spines of those hogs. Even the pass-throughs hit spine.
    Those were pretty small hogs. At one point he could have hit 3-4 with a rifle pass through. A friend of mine doubled two that size with one round from a muzzleloader.
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  10. #160
    Perpetually Tired RevolverRob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Lehr View Post
    Until it isn't.
    Well...I dunno how else to put it for folks...

    A plastic shotgun wad weighs about what two BBs weigh, except it is about 4.5x the diameter of a 0.177 caliber BB. And while I don't recommend you shoot yourself in the eye with a BB - nor do I recommend you shoot yourself in the eye with a shotgun wad - the physics just really don't work out, for this to be a concern.

    If the shot misses the hostage's head, the wad almost certainly will too, because it is on roughly the same trajectory. Except, once the shot has left the wad cup, it's basically a hunk of plastic that has the aerodynamic efficiency and mass of a styrofoam brick, as a result it spins away from the shot column and loses velocity extremely fast. It's not until 15-25 yards, depending on the shell, that the wad is sufficiently separated to have its own trajectory.

    Think about this guys...if it were really the problem everyone is making it out to be, wouldn't we be just as effective shooting wads at clay pigeons instead of shot? Which is easier to break, a clay pigeon or your own skin? (That's rhetorical).

    Stop worrying about this.

    What you need to worry about with your shotgun, is whether or not it holds a proper pattern at your maximum engagement distance. Whether or not you can run the gun effectively (i.e., don't short stroke it, have the muscle to keep the semi-auto running, etc). Whether the gun is reliable. And whether or not YOU can hit what you're aiming at.

    Seriously - go shoot your load at some clay pigeons and don't let the wad worry you.
    "P-f: I lurked for wonderful combat pistolcraft advice, but I ponied up cash for my daily dose of Dada." - Baldanders

    Do not be a fool; the Oxford comma is always necessary.

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