Shotguns vs rifles

[Spartan1980]

I taught a class Saturday where we saw a gun with a Vang Comp modified barrel that shot Federal Flight Control ammunition very well, but Hornady's Versa-Tite (same wad, different name) ammunition like absolute dogshit even at 5 yards. The internal geometry of the barrel was fine with the Federal load, but it was actually stripping the wad off of the shot column on the Hornady load causing the pellets to spread out unacceptably at even close range. The differences between those two shells was likely exceedingly minor...but it was enough to generate a massively different result on the other end.

The choke can be a double edged sword with FFC. On some guns it may indeed result in a better pattern. On others the constriction can actually drag on the wad and cause it to separate from the shot column sooner, resulting in a much wider pattern than desired.

Tighter chokes can sometimes tighten up a pattern and other times make it worse because it forces more contact between pellets which leads to more flat spotting and the billiard ball effect. It's tough to say.

^^^ This parallels my experience perfectly.

My 590A1 with cylinder bore patterns fantastic with low recoil FFC. While with Hornady CD or Varmint Express I can't tell the difference from normal cheap ass Spartan or S&B "bulk buck" loads. The Hornadys react to choke constriction quite like normal buck loads, while the FFC absolutely prefers no constriction at all.

My Benelli Vinci isn't quite as good as the 590 but tracks with it. I was especially disappointed with the Hornady VE #4 buck loads. I was hoping I could get a 50 yard coyote load out of the Versatite wad, but it's a 30 yard load out of that gun at best and even less from the 590. I tried all the way up to full choke in the Vinci and the tighter the choke, the tighter the pattern but past 30 it's just too spread out.

I suspect that the Hornady doesn't perform for these reasons:

• Higher velocity strips the wad from the shot column faster (covers less distance during separation)
• No shot buffer to protect the shot from deformation

I've yet to lay hands on the 1350 FPS FFC load to try but really want to see if it acts like the Hornady at the higher velocity. The jury is still out...

[vaspence]

The Federal FC load through the Vang barrel referenced above was the 2 3/4 9 pellet 00 at 1325 fps per the box. The Hornady versatile load was the 2 3/4 8 pellet 00 at 1600 fps per the box. I'll be heading out in the next week or so to verify patterns with a couple of Benellis I hunt whitetails with, I'll try the Hornady in those.

[Tabasco]

^^^ This parallels my experience perfectly.

My 590A1 with cylinder bore patterns fantastic with low recoil FFC. While with Hornady CD or Varmint Express I can't tell the difference from normal cheap ass Spartan or S&B "bulk buck" loads. The Hornadys react to choke constriction quite like normal buck loads, while the FFC absolutely prefers no constriction at all.

My Benelli Vinci isn't quite as good as the 590 but tracks with it. I was especially disappointed with the Hornady VE #4 buck loads. I was hoping I could get a 50 yard coyote load out of the Versatite wad, but it's a 30 yard load out of that gun at best and even less from the 590. I tried all the way up to full choke in the Vinci and the tighter the choke, the tighter the pattern but past 30 it's just too spread out.

I suspect that the Hornady doesn't perform for these reasons:

• Higher velocity strips the wad from the shot column faster (covers less distance during separation)
• No shot buffer to protect the shot from deformation

I've yet to lay hands on the 1350 FPS FFC load to try but really want to see if it acts like the Hornady at the higher velocity. The jury is still out...

One more thing...
FFC uses plated buckshot, Hornady uses pure lead which is more susceptible to deformation during firing.

[zeleny]

I've found the quality of many shotguns to be lacking.

I never had a problem with USGI shotguns.

[PNWTO]

Curious to see what the participants ITT think of Louis Awerbuck's "all slug, all the time" guidance and how it's aged.

The first two shells in my 590A1 are slugs, due to living in a rural orchard area and the ability to have a longer immediate reach are handy. This is more for the Coyote Doctrine and not the Castle. I don't currently believe in loading straight slugs but I do see the potential advantage for an immediate-action arm, especially when traveling and using a lower-controversy tool.

Being a WA resident asking the shotgun to do long gun detail isn't perfect but the pump action may survive when the centerfire autoloaders are finally phased out by legislature.

[revchuck38]

I no longer have slugs in or on my shotgun since I started using the Flite Control loads. For my use (home defense in a suburban area) the FC loads do all I would need. In @PNWTO's situation, his loading makes sense.

[TCinVA]

I think Mr. Awerbuck's advice...like pretty much everything in this arena...probably makes sense in some contexts, but not in others. It's not what I would do for my defensive shotgun needs.

[03RN]

Awerbuck's class I attended did utilize slugs but because of what would be issued we didn't focus on them.

We did get slugs but not enough.

If I was limited to standard buck nowadays I wouldn't want to use a shotgun. If I was limited to only slugs I'd be ok. Flight control is a happy medium for me.