Pistol version of 327 Federal next step?

[Danjojo]

120gr at 1000fps in a Sig 365/Shield size pistol with 13-14rd magazines. Standard duty G17 size pistol with slimmer, flush 21-22rd mags and very, very minimal recoil. Increased service life of parts and frame of course.

Possible 28rd 140mm mags for games and cool guys...

Same size difference between a 32 cal 120gr bullet and a 9mm 147gr as the 9mm 147gr has to 40 180gr - performance in tests likely similar enough.

Does it seem like a logical progression following the mass movement to 9mm or is 9mm the floor size wise?

I'd bite on the tiny ccw and game gun aspect.

[BehindBlueI's]

It's a rimmed cartridge, so the higher capacity the magazine the more extreme the bend of the magazine has to be. I think it'd be a bother to design a standard 'magazine in the middle of your fist' style pistol that would accommodate that. Not an expert, though.

[Greg]

1200 FPS is still too slow for any velocity based lethality boost so you’re still poking holes.

[Danjojo]

It's a rimmed cartridge, so the higher capacity the magazine the more extreme the bend of the magazine has to be. I think it'd be a bother to design a standard 'magazine in the middle of your fist' style pistol that would accommodate that. Not an expert, though.

1200 FPS is still too slow for any velocity based lethality boost so you’re still poking holes.

Imagining it as a new 32 cal cartridge design running "heavies" at meager 1000fps. Basically a 9mm thinned down proportionally. No extra long case length, rim, or bottleneck...no magnum velocities.

Sectional density would give it similar penetration as the 9mm 147gr's we all know and love. Further down the current rabbit hole with regards to recoil, wear and tear on pistols, capacity, and other smaller caliber benefits.

Manufacturers of pistols and ammunition (as well as large agencies) would theoretically have even more reason to back success of such a round - as they have done with 9mm this past decade. Even lower costs in materials, warranty service, etc. while keeping current pricing.

[Galbraith]

120gr at 1000fps in a Sig 365/Shield size pistol with 13-14rd magazines. Standard duty G17 size pistol with slimmer, flush 21-22rd mags and very, very minimal recoil. Increased service life of parts and frame of course.

Possible 28rd 140mm mags for games and cool guys...

Same size difference between a 32 cal 120gr bullet and a 9mm 147gr as the 9mm 147gr has to 40 180gr - performance in tests likely similar enough.

Does it seem like a logical progression following the mass movement to 9mm or is 9mm the floor size wise?

I'd bite on the tiny ccw and game gun aspect.

There is already a similar cartridge out there called the Belgian 7.92x24mm. It was developed as a better PDW cartridge with the ability to penetrate soft armor with ease. However, it isn't really going anywhere at the moment.

[Hambo]

Does it seem like a logical progression

No. There are/have been rimmed cartridge semiautos: Coonan .357, Desert Eagles, etc. The grip profile ends up being long from front to backstrap and I'd think you have to be pretty careful loading mags so you don't lock up the rims. The other issue is that there are no more Warren Centers or K.W. Thompson Manufacturing in the gun business. Gun companies no longer innovate; they imitate. Hence everyone makes a 1911, and AR, and a polymer framed 9mm.

The best you can hope for is that Hornady will develop a JHP that will open up perfectly at current .32 H&R or .327 velocities.

[Jim Watson]

There is already a similar cartridge out there called the Belgian 7.92x24mm. It was developed as a better PDW cartridge with the ability to penetrate soft armor with ease. However, it isn't really going anywhere at the moment.

I wonder if there was also a Barney Bullet element. Maybe not, I read that Fiocchi meant to develop it for sporting purposes. Which would require a rewrite of IPSC rules and development of a light load for ISSF Centerfire.

See also 7mm Penna. They were in cahoots with STI at one time. I bet you could get a lot of those little suckers in a 2011.

[oldtexan]

120gr at 1000fps in a Sig 365/Shield size pistol with 13-14rd magazines. Standard duty G17 size pistol with slimmer, flush 21-22rd mags and very, very minimal recoil. Increased service life of parts and frame of course.

Possible 28rd 140mm mags for games and cool guys...

Same size difference between a 32 cal 120gr bullet and a 9mm 147gr as the 9mm 147gr has to 40 180gr - performance in tests likely similar enough.

Does it seem like a logical progression following the mass movement to 9mm or is 9mm the floor size wise?

I'd bite on the tiny ccw and game gun aspect.

With modern powders, an existing cartridge called 7.65mm Longue might meet your requirements. Can't vouch for the accuracy of the info in this Wikipedia article, but here it is:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.65%C3%9720mm_Longue

[OlongJohnson]

There is already a similar cartridge out there called the Belgian 7.92x24mm. It was developed as a better PDW cartridge with the ability to penetrate soft armor with ease. However, it isn't really going anywhere at the moment.

I wonder if there was also a Barney Bullet element. Maybe not, I read that Fiocchi meant to develop it for sporting purposes.

This is the first thing that came to mind. I thought this up (.30 Carbine case shortened with a .312 bullet) on my own several years ago, then googled to see if anyone else had done it, and there was the Belgian site. My thought was a truly slim single stack with more rounds in it (like 10) to optimize concealability in 10-rd jurisdictions. Sig and Glock have blown that out of the water, so nevermind.

Not sure Jim means by "Barney Bullet," as the usage of that term I'm familiar with doesn't really fit here. But I do think among the reasons this went nowhere is that the Belgian guy wanted to reinvent every part of the ammunition concept. The message he's pushing is that the bullets we make now are no good, so we need to make new, better, different ones...and make them in this cartridge. My perception is that he wanted to be smarter than everyone else and revolutionize the industry. It doesn't work that way with new cartridges. Take the example of 6.5 CM, where a couple of mainstream manufacturers got behind it and pumped product into the market at extra-competitive prices. It was still built around the idea of using as much existing stuff as possible because it's all good, just tweaking it a little differently. Like all wildcats.

[Jim Watson]

By "Barney Bullet" I meant they could have Authorized Personnel guns and ammo with no civilian base.
Steal a cop gun and it is useless when it is empty.