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Thread: Robar Closing???

  1. #31
    Site Supporter farscott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OlongJohnson View Post
    Anyone have thumbs-up or -down experience with these guys doing nickel boron? I'm thinking about it for some small action parts.

    https://www.wmdguns.com/
    My experience with nickel boron is limited to a G23 slide and an AR-15 BCG. The G23 application has no issues, but the AR BCG became discolored and somewhat "tacky" to the touch. It did not clean up the way NP3-plated parts do; in fact, it was no easier to clean than the before-plating part.

  2. #32
    The R in F.A.R.T RevolverRob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exiledviking View Post
    For the LEM/Match hybrid parts in my HK USP 45 Expert, would DLC be good?
    Looking at coating the hammer, hammer axle, sear, trigger bar, and maybe the FPB.
    DLC can be applied to polished parts and help maintain the polish, but it's not necessarily "slick" like many of the teflon impregnated finishes are, it is really just hard wearing carbon. If you're hoping that a coating may improve the trigger, it's unlikely to happen with DLC. If you just want to have high wear resistance then that is one way to go.

    HK uses Melonite on most of its small parts and slides. Melonite is technically a case-hardening process (NOT a coating, PVD, refinish). Melonited parts can then be coated the standard is a black oxide to it creates high wear resistance (you probably know it best as "Tenifer"). I honestly wouldn't worry too much about HK parts "wearing out" in many respects. Melonite is an excellent hardening process and any polish that occurs can have corrosion prevented with proper maintenance and use of oils/grease/wax.
    Last edited by RevolverRob; 09-05-2019 at 03:04 PM.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spartan1980 View Post
    I had great luck with Surface Solutions, Inc. I had the pvd coat every Dillon powder funnel I own. They did them all for a flat fee that was very reasonable.

    https://www.tincoat.net
    I’ll have to look into them for the chrome nitride - they state it has the best lubricity of their coatings...
    When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk. -Tuco
    Today is victory over yourself of yesterday... -Miyamoto Musashi

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by farscott View Post
    My experience with nickel boron is limited to a G23 slide and an AR-15 BCG. The G23 application has no issues, but the AR BCG became discolored and somewhat "tacky" to the touch. It did not clean up the way NP3-plated parts do; in fact, it was no easier to clean than the before-plating part.
    This is what I’m afraid of with the nickel boron - I have an email into them regarding their EN with PTFE but the hurricane has shut them down for the moment.
    When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk. -Tuco
    Today is victory over yourself of yesterday... -Miyamoto Musashi

  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by RevolverRob View Post
    If you're hoping that a coating may improve the trigger, it's unlikely to happen with DLC.
    Thank you! That's exactly what I wanted know. I'd like to have NP3 applied to those parts but since that does not appear to be possible, I am trying to find a suitable replacement.
    Last edited by Exiledviking; 09-05-2019 at 05:34 PM.

  6. #36
    Member Balisong's Avatar
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    I'm really hoping some company steps in to offer services for getting guns/parts NP3'd. Seems like there's plenty of demand for it.

  7. #37
    Member TGS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RevolverRob View Post
    DLC can be applied to polished parts and help maintain the polish, but it's not necessarily "slick" like many of the teflon impregnated finishes are, it is really just hard wearing carbon. If you're hoping that a coating may improve the trigger, it's unlikely to happen with DLC. If you just want to have high wear resistance then that is one way to go.

    HK uses Melonite on most of its small parts and slides. Melonite is technically a case-hardening process (NOT a coating, PVD, refinish). Melonited parts can then be coated the standard is a black oxide to it creates high wear resistance (you probably know it best as "Tenifer"). I honestly wouldn't worry too much about HK parts "wearing out" in many respects. Melonite is an excellent hardening process and any polish that occurs can have corrosion prevented with proper maintenance and use of oils/grease/wax.
    Some clarification on the above:

    Tenifer and Melonite are trademarked names for the same thing: ferritic nitrocarburization, which yeah, is essentially an advanced form of case hardening. It just uses more advanced chemicals and processes than what great-grandpappy used on his Winchester back in the 19th century when he put it in an oven with bone ash.

    Black oxide is best known as bluing. It's just matte black instead of polished.

    The wear resistance comes from the nitrocarburization, not the bluing. The process was invented by zee Germans looking to extend the barrel life of MG42s. The black oxide is literally just for cosmetic purposes given the steel underneath is nitrocarburized.

    Very small parts are not good candidates for nitrocarbization as they become brittle, which is why HKs small action parts are only black oxided and not nitrocarb'd…..enter the history of CBP Air and Marine buying Glocks because they found their P2000s internals to be rusting.

    NP3 is a very useful addition to an HK internals. Bruce Gray uses (or used?) it for a reason on HK P-series action jobs.
    "Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer

  8. #38
    The R in F.A.R.T RevolverRob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TGS View Post
    Some clarification on the above:

    Tenifer and Melonite are trademarked names for the same thing: ferritic nitrocarburization, which yeah, is essentially an advanced form of case hardening. It just uses more advanced chemicals and processes than what great-grandpappy used on his Winchester back in the 19th century when he put it in an oven with bone ash.

    Black oxide is best known as bluing. It's just matte black instead of polished.

    The wear resistance comes from the nitrocarburization, not the bluing. The process was invented by zee Germans looking to extend the barrel life of MG42s. The black oxide is literally just for cosmetic purposes given the steel underneath is nitrocarburized.

    Very small parts are not good candidates for nitrocarbization as they become brittle, which is why HKs small action parts are only black oxided and not nitrocarb'd…..enter the history of CBP Air and Marine buying Glocks because they found their P2000s internals to be rusting.

    NP3 is a very useful addition to an HK internals. Bruce Gray uses (or used?) it for a reason on HK P-series action jobs.
    Good clarification, I didn't realize HK small parts weren't nitrocarb'ed/melonited/hardened in this way, that kind of sucks. It's not surprising I was sitting here thinking about how case hardening had to make parts more brittle.

    What about Black-T? I remember when it was the new hotness and it's supposed to be fairly slick, not NP3 slick, but slicker than DLC. Though I don't think it is as hard as NP3 or DLC.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balisong View Post
    I'm really hoping some company steps in to offer services for getting guns/parts NP3'd. Seems like there's plenty of demand for it.
    I certainly hope so, and I have a few emails to various companies so I’ll update the threads we have if I find out any good information. Maybe worse comes to worse we could see if we could do a forum/group buy situation with a vendor with staff approval.
    When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk. -Tuco
    Today is victory over yourself of yesterday... -Miyamoto Musashi

  10. #40
    Site Supporter Sero Sed Serio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by guymontag View Post
    I certainly hope so, and I have a few emails to various companies so I’ll update the threads we have if I find out any good information. Maybe worse comes to worse we could see if we could do a forum/group buy situation with a vendor with staff approval.
    I’d get in on this. I have a couple of guns that were going to go to Robar for a full treatment, but kept getting pushed to the back of the priority list because I assumed NP3 would always be there.

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