A thinner grip is a benefit for people with small hands. Especially when we are talking about double action pistols.Originally Posted by spyderco monkey
A thinner grip is a benefit for people with small hands. Especially when we are talking about double action pistols.
@spyderco monkey - If you haven’t seen Glock magazine issues - scroll to the search bar and type “Glock magazine issues” - then do the same for “HK magazine issues” -
And again, while I understand your reasons - I’ve sold guns, accessories, and worked in purchasing for a major national firearms retailer. What you’ve just described is an economic loss for gun companies.
Why would HK want to sell a VP9G with magpul magazines? It’s “Glock compatible! And I have tons of Glock magazines! They’ll sell dozens of them.”
Think about the math there - HK makes $130 more in your hypothetical scenario by selling you a VP9 + magazines scenario. In your VP9G scenario HK loses $310. It saves you the consumer money - economics 101 - companies aren’t trying to save you money. They’re trying to make it.
This is one of those times where I have to be impolite - if you want to try something different, pony up and stop being one of the poors.
Last edited by RevolverRob; 09-01-2019 at 08:38 AM.
There's no way in Hell that I'd like to see Glock mags become the standard for pistols.
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It would be an economic loss if the 'VP9G' sells the same amount of pistols as the regular VP9.
The point is that HK would sell substantially more 'VP9G's then they currently sell VP9's. And since their primary business is selling HK made pistols - not Mecgar manufactured magazines - this increase in sales would be a net increase in profit for HK.
As it stands, the VP9's chief competitor is not Glock, but the Walther PPQ. The PPQ is a virtually identical pistol to the VP9 (to the point that they are difficult to tell apart at a glance) The PPQ is $100 cheaper on average, while the HK has the HK cachet. Reviews online are pretty much evenly split between one vs the other being superior.
The most surefire way HK could suddenly stand out and crush the PPQ would be to take Glock mags. Suddenly, the VP9G has a clear as distinct advantage over the PPQ, even with the PPQ's $100 lower introductory price.
With the PPQ out of the picture, the VP9G suddenly takes on the remainder of the 'not Glock' striker crowd - the CZP10 / APX / SIG P320. While the VP9 would be a toss up amongst that crowd, the VP9G has one of the single greatest advantages for the US market - it takes Glock mags. You get to have a gun thats not a Glock, yet still retain the greatest advantage of the Glock platform, which is its plethora of cheap and available magazines.
Meanwhile from the other side of the street, theres the Glock owner looking for a new pistol. Given a choice between the VP9G, that takes his existing Glock mags, vs the PPQ/CZP10/P320/APX, what do you think he's likely to choose?
So yes, the VP9G would deprive HK of its ability to sell Mecgar mags for extra profit. But it would dramatically boost their overall handgun sales by completely knee capping their rivals in the 'not Glock' striker market.
Sadly, I suspect it will take another AWB/Mag Ban before pistol manufacturers realize the advantage of taking the #1 9x19 high cap magazine in the US.
Post-Ban, the advantage of a pistol that takes Glock mags (tens of millions in circulation) vs a pistol that takes VP9/PPQ/P10/etc mags (hundreds of thousands in circulation) is going to be all too obvious.
It's really the only 'open source' magazine that could be standardized on. Glock mags are made by multiple manufacturers and used in multiple platforms. And its the single most common 9x19 high cap mag in the US by a huge margin.
There really is no other plausible magazine to standardize on.
Yes they are, but what I'm saying is these metal mag high cap pistols are not thinner then the Glock.
Holding my CZ P09 to the base of my G17, thickness is identical, despite the p09's metal mag.
My previously owned PPQ, also of the metal mag, was not thinner then my Glock.
A random pic from google:
Are any of these metal mag duty pistols actually thinner in the grip then the Glock?
Last edited by spyderco monkey; 09-02-2019 at 03:03 AM.
While I have no great deal of experience with the PPQ, I seem to recall that it should have the same size grip as the P99. In which case I disagree with you - the P99 most definitely has a significantly smaller grip than a Glock!
The PPQ has a much more comfortable grip. Its actually based on real ergonomics.
But its just as thick as the Glock:
VP9, PPQ, G19:
In theory a metal mag pistol could be made thinner, that just doesn't seem to actually be born out in practice in any of the modern duty pistols.
Which then begs the question, what is the actual payoff to having all these different proprietary metal mags?
Last edited by spyderco monkey; 09-02-2019 at 05:09 AM.
Ironically, I had a similar idea many, many years ago applying the STANAG principle to pistols. Of course at the time, my concept was to use the Beretta 92 magazine. When you consider how similar the 92, P226, and CZ75 magazines were, save for the mag catch, it would have seemed more feasible.
Of course the Glock wasn’t as prolific back then, and there wasn’t as many viable choices in the high cap 9mm world like you have today. And think about this. If my idea came to fruition, today you might have had a G17 version that took Beretta mags.
Glock mag ubiquity and availbility helped drive me to G19 when I wanted to get back into the double-stack 9mm game.
I do like the idea metal-lined polymer mags better than all-metal mags. I like USP mags the best, but they're never going to be popular. One of the nice things about Glock mags is that if I'm visiting a gun shop, I can almost always buy a magazine from them, just to conduct a bit positive commerce. I remember paying $85 for a single, used, pre-ban USP mag, and being happy to do it.
I'm going to be relatively reluctant to get anything in 9mm that can't take G17 or G19 magazines. I did pick up a 92D Centurion to have an iron-sighted nine, and I am frankly curious about the 2011 with its new design magazines. While I would prefer it if those guns also took Glock magazines, I understand that the engineering challenges to make that happen are simply unappetizing.
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