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Thread: Smaller Saps?

  1. #11
    banana republican blues's Avatar
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    You do not want to be on the business end of this little beast.
    There's nothing civil about this war.

    Read: Harrison Bergeron

  2. #12
    If you are a good slapper I suspect those palm slaps will hit really well, but access under moderate pressure seems, at first glance, to be a challenge.

    I recently got a Boston Leather midget and a DD Whips Convoy and I think it’s truly no comparison. The Convoy is phenomenally hard hitting. Would hate to get hit with either but that DD Blackjack is terrifying.

    Seems like a 7 inch blackjack around 9 ounces would still be nasty.

    Interested to hear from old guys that have used the smaller ones.

  3. #13
    The R in F.A.R.T RevolverRob's Avatar
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    I use a Boston Leather Midget 2-play like the one Blues showed - I also have a Foster midget. I actually prefer the Boston Leather, because the hand strap is less thick. I want enough strap to grab, not enough that it hinders concealment which the Foster does by having a thick hand strap. I also have two Foster jacks, the smaller of the two, a cable jack, is damn near perfect for rendering large amounts of pain discretely.

    As you can see I use a rubber band to keep the strap short and use my pinky to hook and draw the sap. I like the Greenman Leather snap type strap he uses - http://www.greenmanleather.ca/images...rade-thumb.jpg Which will accomplish the same as a rubber band, but be a little flatter.

    Advantage of BL Midgets is...they're about 20-25 bucks. The 2-ply is great for carry. If I thought I'd use it a lot, I guess a 4-ply would be more robust. But I don't think it's necessary and just hinders concealment in many respects.

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  4. #14
    The R in F.A.R.T RevolverRob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oukaapie View Post
    If you are a good slapper I suspect those palm slaps will hit really well, but access under moderate pressure seems, at first glance, to be a challenge.

    I recently got a Boston Leather midget and a DD Whips Convoy and I think it’s truly no comparison. The Convoy is phenomenally hard hitting. Would hate to get hit with either but that DD Blackjack is terrifying.

    Seems like a 7 inch blackjack around 9 ounces would still be nasty.

    Interested to hear from old guys that have used the smaller ones.
    A jack is no shit a much harder hitting weapon than a sap. It concentrates force in a narrower area and cross section. And those like the DD Whips or the Foster Cable Jacks have little "whip back" by virtue of the way they are made. They hit hard and deliver force very well. I have a I think a 8-ounce cable jack, that will bowl over 300 pound guys with hits to the lower extremities. I've done it as a test on a willing participant. Even anticipating and getting hit at about 1/4 speed/strength, no problem leaving a bruise the size of a grapefruit on my 'test dummy's' leg.

    By virtue of the way they hit and how hard they hit, target selection is critical with a jack. A shot to the jaw line with the flat side of a flat sap could dislocate a jaw or break it, a jack almost certainly will break the jaw even with a moderate hit.

    The advantage of the sap is that you can use the flat to disperse the force of the hit or you can use the edge to concentrate the force. No choice with the jack in that regard.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by willie View Post
    I see saps having little use for civilians. One exception might be a larger one kept indoors near a door.
    I would actually rather have a sap than a knife (especially a folder) for civilian self defense. I particularly appreciate how easily something like the midget is carried and how one can very discreetly grasp the sap without causing undue alarm, simply by reaching casually into one’s pockets (much like a pocket carried snub).

    I also like how using the sap in a fight isn’t going to result in nearly as much nasty bodily fluids getting dribbled about as something like a knife, and how the sap is generally no more lethal than a baton, for those situations where using deadly force might not quite be the way to go.

    Really, the only downside to the sap is that it is somehow less legal than guns or knives in many jurisdictions.


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  6. #16
    Do the cables hit harder? Why?

  7. #17
    The R in F.A.R.T RevolverRob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by willie View Post
    I see saps having little use for civilians.
    If you can get into a fight at Wal-Mart you have potential use for a sap. If there might be a fist fight you're involved with, having a sap stacks the deck in your favor. A sap + OC is a great set of tools for public transit, parking lots, the dog park, hell anywhere.

    The reason cops like them, is because they work real well at stopping fights. Whether you're a cop or Joe Schmoe down the street doesn't matter. Saps and jacks when deployed and used properly are typically less-lethal and help end fights sooner. The reason most places banned them is...because they are discreet to carry and end fights really well.

    It's not really a complete analogy, but to me a sap is to a knife what a shotgun is to a pistol. They each have their uses, deployment strengths, and ranges. Each when used properly can do the job. A jack or sap, like a shotgun, generates more power by virtue of its design.

  8. #18
    The R in F.A.R.T RevolverRob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oukaapie View Post
    Do the cables hit harder? Why?
    No spring back.

    With a spring-sprung jack you'll get some "whip back" when it hits a surface and that is force that doesn't hit the surface. The cable just really doesn't "whip back" much at all. So (almost) all the energy from the swing gets delivered.

    I thought the opposite for a while, until I tried them both. Then you can see the difference.

    I'm gonna cook some steak tomorrow that needs to be tenderized. I'll tenderize it and video it with a sap showing flat and edge strikes, a cable jack, and a larger spring jack I have. Then you guys can see the differences in hits.

  9. #19
    banana republican blues's Avatar
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    Everyone's mileage may vary but I purchased the Midget as a "less lethal" option. My intent is for it to create space to depart or, if appropriate and necessary, allow other options.

    The fact that it can dispense more or less punishment depending on how it's employed is a plus. Since it's intended as a close quarters, concealable option to protect my hands which, while still strong, cannot withstand the punishment they once took, the Midget gets the nod.

    Won't give the distance I might prefer with a cur but I can live with the trade-off.

    The fact that I don't have to worry about it failing or emptying at the wrong time, (like a canister of OC potentially might), and that a reasonably well placed blow can end an attack quickly, gives it a leg up in my book.

    As stated above, mileage will certainly vary.
    There's nothing civil about this war.

    Read: Harrison Bergeron

  10. #20
    Thanks RevolverRob. Looks like I’ll be getting a smaller cable jack.

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