Expanding FMJ from Federal

[Chuck Haggard]

A few years ago I had to take a trip to NJ. Could carry under LEOSA but a JHP bullet would still be a felony. I talked to Doc Roberts about various ammo, after confirming with the NJSP Firearms Unit LT, and went with 124gr +p EFMJ in a Glock 19 and a 642 loaded with wadcutters.

The Guard Dog is shitty ammo. The 124gr +p version ain't bad. Both Doc and Mike Pannone report good performance from the 124gr version.

[JAH 3rd]

Takes me back to my childhood!

https://www.dumdumpops.com/

[Jeep]

It's the same old story. The politicians freaked out about expanding bullets so the designers went back and designed the Spitzer bullet instead of a round-nose. The result was an even more effective damaging) bullet when used in .30 caliber weapons than most dum-dums.

However, since it did not expand, merely yawed and self destructed at high velocity in the body, it was fine with the politicians since it didn't expand--which would have been bad. It made the machine guns and rifles of WWI and II (but see the Carcano and M1 Carbine with their round-tip bullets) highly lethal.

110 years later we are still dealing with international organizations who think expanding bullets=bad, high velocity, medium-caliber spritzers = good. Thankfully the US is finally ignoring the stupidity of the international organizations on these issues.

[Baldanders]

Weren't these supposed to expand in drywall as well as flesh, making them the "ideal home defense load," as they would theoretically stop in a wall or two?

IIRC, this turned out not to be true.

[10mmfanboy]

My friend is a retired cop from PA. He is always complaining how stupid it is that when he's riding his bike or driving and wants to cross into NJ he has to pull over before the bridge and find some bushes to take out his HP and hide them and insert some fmj. He's got colorful words describing this process every time.

[0ddl0t]

Weren't these supposed to expand in drywall as well as flesh, making them the "ideal home defense load," as they would theoretically stop in a wall or two?

IIRC, this turned out not to be true.

It is true that they expand when they hit drywall, but they still had enough energy afterward to penetrate 8-9 inches in gel for the 105 grain personal defense and 12 inches for the 124 law enforcement versions. Kind of makes it the worst of both worlds -- not very barrier blind yet still lethal...

[DocGKR]

Uh...the EFMJ are very "barrier blind". Keep in mind that "Barrier Blind" means the projectile performs the same whether there is a barrier or not.

[0ddl0t]

Uh...the EFMJ are very "barrier blind". Keep in mind that "Barrier Blind" means the projectile performs the same whether there is a barrier or not.

I guess it is all relative, but I consider a 25% decrease in penetration (from 12" in bare gel to 9" after wallboard) to be a dissimilar performance. For comparison, the .357sig gold dot data sheet I have from yesterday's discussion shows ~14 3/4 in bare gel and ~14 1/4 after wallboard -- a mere 3% decrease.

[DocGKR]

It is relative. Look at the time EFMJ was used in government service. Also don't compare the commercial loads with ones designed for duty use.

[TGS]

My friend is a retired cop from PA. He is always complaining how stupid it is that when he's riding his bike or driving and wants to cross into NJ he has to pull over before the bridge and find some bushes to take out his HP and hide them and insert some fmj. He's got colorful words describing this process every time.

He could just carrying Hornady Critical Defense and not worry about it...….