Fort Knox Gun Safes Article

[FAS1]

So, just playing Devil’s Advocate, why should I invest in a big and heavy ass safe like a Fort Knox vs something like the one linked below? It sounds like the fire protection is generally dubious at best and, if one is so determined and motivated, can still cut into it and steal your wares.

https://www.secureitgunstorage.com/p...model-52-plus/


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For me, I want to buy as much time as I can from a thief being able to compromise my safes. There are way to many variables for me to really compare them, but steel thickness does matter when it comes to prying and cutting. The graph below illustrates a general rule of steel strength. The bending strength of steel increases by approximately the square of its thickness. For example, if you double the thickness of a piece of steel, it does not merely become twice as strong, but approximately 8 times as strong.



Your example, I'm guessing is made of 14GA steel. All I see on the web page is "heavy-duty steel cabinet." That's the first sign for me to run the other way. My idea of heavy duty isn't the same as their's apparently and I'm always cautious when a manufacturer doesn't openly disclose the information. It's the same to me as a "3" thick composite door." Composite made of what exactly?

Notice in the chart above that 3/16" steel is almost 16 times stronger than 14GA? That certainly makes a difference when trying to cut or pry.

When I look at the example only weighing 105 lbs. it really is just a cabinet in my opinion and they call them that on their web page.

BASIC SIZE/WEIGHT:

AGILE MODEL 52: GUN CABINET
Height: 52" | Width: 20" | Depth: 15"

Weight: 105 lbs

It's a little hard to find an exact size comparison but this is close enough to get the idea.

60"H x 24"W x 19"D - MODEL 2419 Sturdy Safe

Weight: 520 lbs - The Standard Steel 3/16" Body 5/16" Door Without Fire Protection

[Tokarev]

So, just playing Devil’s Advocate, why should I invest in a big and heavy ass safe like a Fort Knox vs something like the one linked below?

https://www.secureitgunstorage.com/p...model-52-plus/

We have an older Secure It cabinet at work. The interior is functional but the box itself is nothing at all to be impressed with. It is fine in an arms room (where ours is) but I wouldn't want to rely on it for primary storage.

If that's all you can afford that's certainly better than nothing. And the salesman is probably right that it doesn't take any additional effort to cut into something like that vs a UL RSC when using good power tools. But outside of cutting, I imagine you could pry the Secure It cabinet open with a tire iron. Probably not something you'll accomplish on even the budget RSC.

I assume you'll also pay a premium for the fancy modular interior on the Secure It. I'd probably buy one of the Liberty Centurions if I was on a tight budget. Not RSC rated but likely a bit more durable than the Secure It cabinet.

[FAS1]

We have an older Secure It cabinet at work. The interior is functional but the box itself is nothing at all to be impressed with. I assume you'll also pay a premium for the fancy modular interior on the Secure It.

I also like the idea of a modular interior, but they are a little expensive for what they are. I have been told that they us Akro-Mils for their plastic bins, so I assume you could save a little using Akro-Mils brand panels and bins and anything gun specific you could get from SecureIt.

https://akro-mils.com/Products/Types...uvered-Systems

[Tokarev]

I also like the idea of a modular interior, but they are a little expensive for what they are. I have been told that they us Akro-Mils for their plastic bins, so I assume you could save a little using Akro-Mils brand panels and bins and anything gun specific you could get from SecureIt.

https://akro-mils.com/Products/Types...uvered-Systems

The Secure It interior is functional for stuff that gets inventoried regularly and taken in and out all the time. Otherwise I think it is not something useful to the average shooter.

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[TGS]

So, just playing Devil’s Advocate, why should I invest in a big and heavy ass safe like a Fort Knox vs something like the one linked below? It sounds like the fire protection is generally dubious at best and, if one is so determined and motivated, can still cut into it and steal your wares.

https://www.secureitgunstorage.com/p...model-52-plus/


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Definitely a good question. As mentioned earlier in the thread, most attacks are brute force with common hand tools, not professional entries.

A person can literally punch a hole in the side of that cabinet with a hammer and then (in many cabinets, like Stack-On) stick their arm in and open it from the inside. Even easier if they get their hands on a sledge, if the sledge doesn't bust the frame welds and literally break the cabinet open to begin with, or break off the door.

Or, the door can be pried open very quickly. With an actual full size pry bar, likely in one attempt/"pull" on the door. With a hand pry, likely under a minute. Many of the steel cabinets can be pried open using a robust screw driver, or even just opened by punching out the lock.

All of these are why it's so important to make sure that if you're buying a larger safe and making a conscious decision to scale up from cabinets, that you need to make sure it has a plate door. Lots of people end up buying big thick looking "safes" with gunstores/big box stores/sporting goods stores, and they're really just thin sheet metal wrapped around drywall to make it look thick. Truth is they can be pried almost as easily as a regular "cabinet", because that's what they actually are.

I've never heard of anyone buying a cabinet and mounting it with bolts into concrete...….most seem to just leave them free-standing, in which a thief can just leave with it. Even if you screw it into the wall studs, you could pry it off the wall. Thieves who rob houses under the guise of a moving company will typically just take the safe with them, which is why it's important to put them somewhere difficult to move and have them professionally mounted into concrete (for instance, you have to take 3 doors off their hinges to get mine out of the house, as well as use a robot to lift it, even if you were able to get it off the concrete).

Security is a sliding scale, not a binary solution. Until we bought this house and upgraded our home security buildout, I used a very low end Stack-On steel cabinet for about 15 years. I kept it mounted with long screws into the studs. I did what I could for what I had, and it even made it through an otherwise successful burglary at my house about 5 years ago. That doesn't change the fact that when looking at common burglary trends you gain a LOT by going with a steel plate door and lag bolts in concrete flooring, even if it's a lower end safe and not a decent quality one like a Ft Knox, AMSEC or Sturdy.

[spinmove_]

And this is why I ask these questions. I appreciate your responses, gentleman. I’ll most likely save up for at least a Liberty that meets RSC-1 standards.


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[Tokarev]

And this is why I ask these questions. I appreciate your responses, gentleman. I’ll most likely save up for at least a Liberty that meets RSC-1 standards.


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Fatboy gets pretty good reviews. Nice size for the money.

https://www.westcoastsafes.com/produ...-64-gun-safes/

A similar size and feature set from Ft Knox.

https://www.westcoastsafes.com/produ...041-gun-safes/

Two different means to the same end.

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[Tokarev]

Here's some quite interesting stuff on the RSC ratings. Covers only levels 1 and 2. From what I've seen previously the level 3 is basically the UL TL15 test.

http://www.antiquesage.com/new-ul-rs...y-safe-rating/

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[TGS]

Fatboy gets pretty good reviews. Nice size for the money.

https://www.westcoastsafes.com/produ...-64-gun-safes/

A similar size and feature set from Ft Knox.

https://www.westcoastsafes.com/produ...041-gun-safes/

Two different means to the same end.

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I'm really not trying to be a jerk, but those are exactly the sort of gunsafe that people shouldn't buy.

Both of those feature sheet metal wrapped around drywall for their doors. The one even tries to say it has a steel plate, but it was something like 11ga. That's not a real steel plate, which typically start at 3/16" for gun safes.

For instance, ALL of AMSECs full size gun safes feature at least 3/16" steel doors on their cheapest models, including safes that cost much less than either of those (the small TF and the larger FV lines). For a company that's been building safes longer than most of the market combined, I'd take it as a clue that 3/16" is the thinnest they'll go on a door even for their cheapest entry level safes where they're actually trying to compete with the big box store brands. If you go with a Sturdy Safe for about the same price, you can have a fucking baller safe from a security standpoint (enter the limited dealer network and complication with delivery, move, and install, which is why I went AMSEC personally). You could get a 39-rifle Gardall safe for $2400 with a 1/4" steel door and 11ga body.

Both of these options from Ft Knox and Liberty are examples of gunsafes that prioritize nice features for the price as opposed to security. The Ft Knox M1 would be a much better option from a security perspective. Liberty, Cannon, and Browning are probably the most well known brands in the safe market that are also rip-offs.

[Tokarev]

I'm really not trying to be a jerk, but those are exactly the sort of gunsafe that people shouldn't buy.

Both of those feature sheet metal wrapped around drywall for their doors. The one even tries to say it has a steel plate, but it was something like 11ga. That's not a real steel plate, which typically start at 3/16" for gun safes.

For instance, ALL of AMSECs full size gun safes feature at least 3/16" steel doors on their cheapest models, including safes that cost much less than either of those (the small TF and the larger FV lines). If you go with a Sturdy Safe for about the same price, you can have a fucking baller safe from a security standpoint (enter the limited dealer network and complication with delivery, move, and install, which is why I went AMSEC personally). You could get a 39-rifle Gardall safe for $2400 with a 1/4" steel door and 11ga body.

Both of these options from Ft Knox and Liberty are examples of gunsafes that prioritize nice features for the price as opposed to security. The Ft Knox M1 would be a much better option from a security perspective. Liberty, Cannon, and Browning are probably the most well known brands in the safe market that are also rip-offs.

If money's tight both of these are good options. American made. Funny welded bodies. Good warranty.

Canon, lower end Browning and lower end AMSEC are imported. Skip welded bodies with body putty used to seal gaps. No thanks.



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