We were parked next to a Cayenne today at the range. Definitely a lot smaller than the 4 door JLU.Originally Posted by SD
My friend's X5 seemed pretty big -- might be too nice if you have a drool-monster like our Newfie.
We were parked next to a Cayenne today at the range. Definitely a lot smaller than the 4 door JLU.
My friend's X5 seemed pretty big -- might be too nice if you have a drool-monster like our Newfie.
We are still enjoying our 2019 Subaru Touring with the 3.6 "6". My wife is a speed demon and that 6 moves the Outback at a good clip and we like the AWD for the rain, sleet, and once a year snow in NW GA. We plan on this being our retirement trip vehicle to see the US. We have a 2015 Ram 1500 for me to make range trips, pull the golf cart for Sporting Clays, and Home Depot runs.
That is interesting on the handling, I personally would like to see that laundry list.
Adding: I am more satisfied with our purchase of a 2019 Highlander XLE now, a year and a half into it than I was initially. It is just a great all around driving appliance, and while my personal preference is toward smaller, lighter cars that handle better, the Highlander just performs so well with day to day life, there is little to criticize.
You bet. We bought our '19 base Cayenne in maybe mid '19. After a few months of use, there were quite a few things that ended up bugging both of us, so we got a '20 RX350, as I mentioned.
Relative to the 9Y0: The Auto Start Stop feature could not be coded out (we asked). ASS engages at slow speeds, even at 1-2 mph. Wife consistently had the engine quit on her (and thus, lost all power assisted steering) parking at slow speed. She was Not Happy. I was almost T-boned twice as I crept forward to merge into a small gap, only to have the engine die, right when I needed to boot it into traffic. You could of course manually disengage ASS, but you had to do it every time you started the engine. Which was a surprisingly irritating PITA involving a few stabs at the touchscreen. We eventually coded "ASS OFF" to the "diamond" button on the steering wheel, but still, sometimes I just forgot. And, it had this peculiar characteristic, where if you didn't disable it at a certain exact point in the start up sequence, it didn't disable. Which of course the car didn't let you know, until the engine died. So that sucked.
Relative to the Lexus, the Backup Camera is smaller and harder to see. The RX 350 Door mirrors are much larger and have greater field of view.
Adaptive Radar cruise was optional on the Cayenne, but standard on the Lexus. Rear X traffic alert was not available for the Porsche. We got it on the Lexus.
Tires on the Lexus are Michelin LTX. All four are identical 235/55R20s. Replacements would be $892 a set, vs the non rotatable, Pirelli Scorpions 275/45R20 305/40R20, at $1,327 for four. The Lexus takes regular gas; the Porsche, only Premium.
The RX has a normal movable Shifter stalk vs Knob w a button. The Porsche shifter implementation was very counter intuitive. Months after owning the car, we were still putting into reverse, instead of pushing the button for "park". The Lexus has normal sized arm rests vs the ‘V’ grab handles on the Cayenne. These V handles look super cool in the marketing brochures where people are traversing the Serengeti, but they end up digging into your hips.
Lastly, and I think this was the final straw. The '19 and '20 Cayenne’s standard brakes have a persistent brake noise/graunching on slowing to a stop. We mentioned it at the first (unscheduled) service for an unrelated item (electrical fault with the left hand door mirror, fixed under warranty n/c). The tech write up was "no fault, normal operation." I took it back for the first actual scheduled service, and discussed it again with the service writer. Again, no fault. Then they sent me a video link, describing the "Porsche break noise" and why it was a aktchually a feature. Really. It wasn’t just us, quite a few owners are reporting noise issues w the standard brakes on the p-car forum I'm on (Rennlist). I investigated aftermarket pads but there were no options to be had for the 9Y0, just OEM. Living with this noise was pretty embarrassing. You arrive in your big flashy new SUV, pull in to a space, and all people hear is SCREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE. Nice.
So, after all that, we'd had enough, so we took it to the Lexus dealer. Mrs. RJ had had an '18 RX350 she really liked; but it did not have Nav. Plus the tech was due to be updated. Luckily for us, Lexus did in fact refresh the entire infotainment system in the '20 RX350. So we got a model with the Nav option, and a few more bells and whistles. Plus a towing package. We paid $46k OTD for the Lexus, vs $80+ for the Porsche. Sure, we lost some money. Sure, the Lexus is rated at 7.7s vs 5.9s to 60 mph. And has a much more isolated, floaty ride with less pickup at freeway speeds. But, you know what? She doesn't care. Money quote: "It’s not as exciting as the Cayenne, but I like it”. Happy wife, happy life.
For me? It's not as clear cut. The Cayenne would be the vehicle I would want if I needed to ferry four people and their luggage across country at 80+mph in crap weather in the dead of night. It was very planted. And quick (ish) for a large SUV. I suspect the "get up and go" might have been the AWD, which works full time, and very well. Understeer is dialed out somehow by the Porsche chassis magicians, it just grips. Sure, a little body roll, but it is well modulated.
I probably would have gotten along with the usability issues, but to be honest, having the engine conk out on you in traffic via the non-defeatable ASS system is simply unacceptable. And in an 80 thousand dollar performance SUV? To save gas? Are you kidding me? And the brakes. While they were undeniably effective, the noise they made at low speed really did detract from the enjoyment of the car.
And of course, Porsche's philosophy of making you pay for just about every useful option that you get these days with a Hyundai is maddening. You have to option the crap out of the car to get stuff that comes with vehicles at half the price point.
So, I don't see the value proposition of the Cayenne. Still, it's a popular car, and it and the Macan are their best sellers, but I would not buy one again.
Last edited by RJ; 10-12-2020 at 06:13 PM.
Volvo has now re-branded their "plug in hybrid" models as "recharge", and appears to have lowered prices on at least the XC60.
https://www.volvocars.com/us/v/cars/xc60-hybrid
They've also (re?)released the T8 V60 domestically which is intriguing (albeit expensive...)
https://www.volvocars.com/us/v/cars/v60-hybrid
My experience in Norway with the V90 T8 was awesome, and also indicated that you don't *have to* pug it in but can instead internally re-charge the batteries while driving on the gas
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Despite the troubles I reported upthread, my wife replaced her Benz GLC with a Volvo V60. She doesn't like it -- it's not an SUV, and it turns out she actually wanted an SUV -- but it hasn't done anything too stupid yet.
The GLC pissed me off immeasurably. Terrible handling, run flat tires that went bald after 17K with no warranty, and -- and this is the kicker -- a pair of remote key fobs that ate batteries every two months, which three different service techs told me was either normal or my fault.
I am staggeringly pleased with my '17 3.6 Outback Touring. My wife is supposed to trade the Volvo for a Forester when the '21s come in. We shall see.
I would like to be surprised by the fact that Porsche has not been able to make start/stop properly function, but my professional experience with VW AG has me firmly in the, "Do not buy German if you value reliability" camp. The VW engineering approach is to write requirements documents that are full of stupidity, require an industry non-standard method that performs poorly at more cost with more complexity, assign a program manager with no expertise in the commodity, outsource the engineering to the supplier with the lowest unit cost, let the buyer choose the winning bid about six months after the program should have been started, have the design checked on paper by someone with no practical experience, have the software checked for coding standards but not for function (why start/stop does not work -- but the code is properly commented), insist on using twenty-three parts when one will do, go into production, and then demand the supplier redesign in the first years of mass production to further lower cost.
Then be surprised that the vehicle is a turd at three years into ownership. Every OEM has issues. But VW AG makes FCA look like the Japanese when it comes down to reliability and durability.
VW or otherwise, I wouldn't plan on owning any German car for more than 3 years.
Even in 2020, if what I cared about was driving a car until the wheels fell off and I was out bragging to all my friends about the odometer rolling over and lack of basic convenience "but it's paid for", I'd still buy Japanese.
If I wind up with any sort of "luxury" brand it'll be a short-lived experience I'm quite sure. Get something fun-ish, keep it for a couple of years, and get rid of it. I might even do something completely stupid and lease the thing.
My current 2016 RAM 1500 sport appears to be living up to my expectation of shitting the bed <5 years/100k so all of this may get moved from "thought experiment" to "reality" a little quicker than I'd planned.
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After lots of test drives, the wife selected the Lexus GX-460, her Volvo T-60 is happily traded. Sequoia was the runner up but Lexus really was aggressive with pricing and Toyota was playing the water cooler game.
Yeah the whole ASS thing was a bit of a disappointment. My understanding is that Porsche tweaked the algorithm in '17 to eke out a bit more MPG in the certification testing (not sure if Germany, or US) for mileage.
Oddly enough, my 991.2, and 991.2's in particular, seem to be pretty reliable, overall. There are very few really issues being reported on the forums. Certainly nothing like the IMS bearing issue of '99 - '06. The water pump on the '17s seems to have been a problem, and to a lesser degree on the '18/'19, but most are getting replaced n/c by an upgraded part as they fail (very slow leak.) Door panel warping is a theme with the coupe's; I'd heard about but did not experience it with my 981S. Mine are fine. The 3.0 T engine seems to be aging well; being produced only three years in the model run at the late end of 991 production, before the switch over to 992s, for the '20 model year. It certainly boots my low end poverty spec Carrera along up to the limit of my talent, that's for sure.
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